Berseker rage and Damage over time Penalty

At first glance I'm not keen on the rage mechanic. In particular it's not possible to ignore rage if you want to use all 8 ascendancy points. At 6 you can take Pain Reaver, Cloaked in Savagery, and Aspect of Carnage. But if you want to use the last 2 points it's either into War Bringer or Crave the Slaughter.

If rage's bonuses were usually worthwhile then maybe it'd feel okay. But the bonuses compared to the tradeoffmake me hesitate. Trading 10% life lost per second (which can't be mitigated with resists) for 50% attack damage, 25% attack speed, and a measly 10% movement speed? I'd have to really think on that and it seems to limit builds more than enables. Doubling that with Rite of Ruin to 20% lost to gain 100% attack damage, 50% attack speed, and crappy 20% movement is even worse.

The focus on attacks means making a pure spellcaster doesn't work so well. But I suppose GGG is backtracking on giving us a way to leech decently with spells? It's pretty painful to do that especially since attacks tend to have the higher damage ceiling.

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noheal wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

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noheal wrote:

on blood rage most people put on and off the jewel

My only problem right now is what you do when you stop to trow a net for 5 seconds on the pokemon league

You cast a warcry a couple of times to keep your life up.

remenber you only got 8 points lol and the warcry give you rage as well
https://web.poecdn.com/image/bestiary/Panel8/Berserker.jpg

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Tortunga wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

You cast a warcry a couple of times to keep your life up.

Warcry gives 5 rage, so your stuck on 50 stacks.

He asked what to do for the 5 seconds waiting to trap a pokemon. That is the question I answered.

The more i think about it, the more it seems lke complete shit.

1) As i said in the OP you lose Damage on Full life, meaning most likely, especialy considering that you have to build 50 stacks, with a suboptimal gem on a boss situation you will end up with less damage overall and a fuckton of degen.

2) You cannot avoid the rage mechanic if you wanna spend all your 8 ascedancy points.

3) Noone in his right mind will be taking the doube effect. As it has stated Cloaked in savagery gives you the same bonus, but you can have it instantly with a doedre's elixir anytime you want (so usefull at any situation) and it gives you 100% leech (plus the extra leech from the previous points) instead of a huge degen. Really absolutely no point in taking the double effect. You take aspect of the carnage and then you are left with 6 points. Even if you take the first rage, why not the extra bonus which is exactly the same but with more goodies and no penalty from cloaked in savagery and go for the double effect? For getting War Bringer as well?? getting double degen for THAT?

4) When you need the most damage, meaning on endgame bosses and only there, it is fucking useless. You won't have it built up, and when you supposedely have take an ascedancy that is being presented as the ultimate glass cannon, the supreme damage dealer, you expect to kill the boss way before you actually build 50 rage. I mean seriously....

5) The Degen, while beig HUGE, it also lasts very long and it is impossible to mitigate. You will have to build so much around it to not die, especially in a non combat situation or between boss phases, that you will end up losing damage/equipment passives which again defeats the purpose of the class being sold as the ultimate glass cannon/damage dealer.

6) The actual rewards are complete shit as well. If we were talking about X% of MORE damage etc. then maybe, but 25% speed and 50% damage..... The same as cloaked in savagery but with huge downsides and non usable in a boss situation??? What were they thinking.

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Tortunga wrote:

Furthermore let's compare it to raiders Avatar of slaughter, with 3 extra charges from the tree. Avatar of slaughter gives you 25% increased AS (7 times 3%, and 4% from the extra charge), 21% attack damage, 14% movement speed, and 4% more damage (from the frenzy charge). The difference is 39% increased damage, vs 4% more damage and 4% movement speed. I would say that's somewhat equal, but avatar of slaughter doesn't have a down side.

How about we don't compare it to an ascendancy that will maybe change in 3.2 and we don't know any details, that took 3 extra charges from the tree and that doesn't have a straight up "40% more damage" notable?

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I wouldn't have designed "Rage" like this as well.

I would probably have tried something like "Huskar" from dota 2, a combination of offense and defense:

*keep the degen
*For each 10% life missing, gain +1% max resist
*For each 5% life missing, gain +1% flat phys reduction
*For each 1% health missing, +x% Attackspeed / damage
*your ES is zero (so it cannot be abused by low life builds)

This would reward a player for "playing with fire", balancing his berserker's health globe level at a lower state.

If Rage needs to be like it is now, I'd maybe grant it "more" damage instead of "increased", with the same numbers, maybe a tiny bit lower (like 35%/70% more damage). This would be insane offensively, but given the price you have to pay, it sounds about right to me.

But nevertheless, I'm going to try how it feels ingame.
I like playing around with effects like this.

A really simple solution that makes better with the whole concept and have rewards that are actually worth it would be to make it like that:

- Everytime you get hit you get rage stacks equall to the amount of the % of your life removed (which obviously stacks)
- 50 rage cap
- 0.5% MORE attack damage per rage
- 0.5% increased attack speed per rage
- 0.25% increased damage taken per rage


And then Rite of Ruin: Effectss of rage are doubled. You cannot be stunned when you have rage. Gain a frenzy charge everytime you get hit. Your frenzy charges do not expire if you have rage(makes sense thematically).


So at maximum rage you will have 50% more damage, 50% attack speed and 25% increased damage taken. It builds when you get hit(and you can force it with something like a doedre's elixir). No effects after combat. The rewards are huge (with aspect of the carnage). 90% More damage, but so are the downsides. 35% increased damage taken is insane. Consider that Inquisitor, with his igonre ele resist perk can have 60% more damage against Shaper/Guardians with no downsides.

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astraph wrote:

90% More damage

40% more and 50% more is more than 90%.
1.4 * 1,5 = 2,1 = 110% more damage

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Consider that Inquisitor, with his igonre ele resist perk can have 60% more damage against Shaper/Guardians with no downsides.

Consider that we don't know what they are going to do with Inquisitor yet.
Also that's not how it works:
60% resist: takes 40% damage
0% resist: takes 100% damage
100/40 = 2,5 = 150% more damage (now multiply by crit chance for real multiplier)

I got a very tanky char in HC Abyss with around 1200 hp regen and decent leech, with some other defensive mechanics build it.

On some map mods with bonus damage on mobs, ignite etc, or random bleed enemies, it's very dangerous to run Blood rage which is only 4% life degen, which is also mitigatated by my 50% phys reduction from armor plus endurance charges on top of that and granite flask.

Comparing that to 10% or 20% life degen unmitigated from Rage... Rage would need to give me like 300% more damage to try that deathtrap in HC. :D

Not saying it's not possible to build around it, but I dont feel like it's HC thing, and doubt anyone will have much fun with it on some dangerous and fun map, be it HC or SC.

They should just make Rage harder to sustain (maybe 5% or less chance to get it from hits on rares/uniques) and remove the degen.

So, more bashing on enemies = more Rage, more damage, less bashing and raunning around, less Rage. Keep it simple and interesting.

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Boem wrote:

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Bananaplasm wrote:

Yes it is a bad concept, because it is the same shit concept Deadeye is build on (just attacks, not even spells). Damage is fine, but it brings zero to the table.

The worst part is its shitty design. It's a speed clear ascendancy with ok'ish speed. Stop and you are dead.

It's a berserker, it makes a lot more sense then the current static "you deal more damage, all the time".

I was actually amazed they didn't do something like this when it was initially released.

Though i agree, the value's are off currently to warrant their perks. But as a basis to work from it's a lot better then the current version.

Peace,

-Boem-

the problem is, there are many builds that do not work anymore at all.
thats not a nerf, thats a deletion.


ps and that sucks^^

I hope they will change berserker before the release because the new rage mechanics is complete garbage.

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Peterlerock wrote:

I wouldn't have designed "Rage" like this as well.

I would probably have tried something like "Huskar" from dota 2, a combination of offense and defense:

*keep the degen
*For each 10% life missing, gain +1% max resist
*For each 5% life missing, gain +1% flat phys reduction
*For each 1% health missing, +x% Attackspeed / damage
*your ES is zero (so it cannot be abused by low life builds)

This would reward a player for "playing with fire", balancing his berserker's health globe level at a lower state.

If Rage needs to be like it is now, I'd maybe grant it "more" damage instead of "increased", with the same numbers, maybe a tiny bit lower (like 35%/70% more damage). This would be insane offensively, but given the price you have to pay, it sounds about right to me.

But nevertheless, I'm going to try how it feels ingame.
I like playing around with effects like this.

I'm sure GGG thought something like this when they were designing/redesigning Berserker. It's just not feasible in PoE. 1-shot hits being as common as they are, giving players a choice to get small-time buffs for an exponentially increasing chance to get 1-shotted will be ignored. It'll become a noob trap.