Time to nerf the EXP penalty on death ?

how about some sort of temporary debuff to exp gain. instead of just straight out loss? It slows down the progress as much as the devs want it to and it doesn't result in that "treading water" situation some of us tend to get stuck in.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Of course, as having 1 chance at completing game content is more meaningful than having infinite amounts and some "slap on the wrist".

Permanent death is meaningful and does give "moar bragging rights" in some opinions...

It's kind of weakened when you can mitigate the permadeath issue by abusing alt+F4 and instant logouts.

I'd rather take the EXP loss and admit I fucked up rather than immediately closing the game for fucking up then pretend it wasn't my fault. :P

Me too, and I always felt more courageous and satisfied when I survived a really dangerous, heck even close to suicidal, situation due to not abusing instant log out!

So keep preaching to the choir... ^^

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kompaniet wrote:

in d2 we lost a lot of gold when we died.

And gold was useless in diablo since the items that could even be found from traders was just from gambling and gambling required certain lvl characters to gain properties which was already end game.

After all HC is just 1 allowed life, and SC an infinite amount of lives. As usual, and as in every situation even in reallife, no extreme is good. Maybe we could imagine a system (MediumCore ?) where each player starts with, for example, 3 lives, with the possibility to find "+1 Life" Currency (account bound to prevent trade) at a pretty rare rate (similar to dropping an Exalted orb, for example) with an increased chance to find said currency when fighting harder content.

After all, this idea is not new, in fact it's been existing since the dawn of arcade & videogame. A league to test such a system could be very interesting.

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FNX_Heroes wrote:

After all HC is just 1 allowed life, and SC an infinite amount of lives. As usual, and as in every situation even in reallife, no extreme is good. Maybe we could imagine a system (MediumCore ?) where each player starts with, for example, 3 lives, with the possibility to find "+1 Life" Currency (account bound to prevent trade) at a pretty rare rate (similar to dropping an Exalted orb, for example) with an increased chance to find said currency when fighting harder content.

After all, this idea is not new, in fact it's been existing since the dawn of arcade & videogame. A league to test such a system could be very interesting.

Try getting gud.

There is no reason to change the death penalty, as it is working exactly as designed...

Know this: You are not 'entitled' to reach level 100!

You're entitled to level as far as your character build skills, trading skills, grinding skills and most of all, ability to control your character and make decisions when playing that ensure you're not dying, mandate.

If you can't advance further because you keep dying, it is because your skills in one or more of these areas are lacking, and you do not deserve to reach level 100.

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Cyzax wrote:

There is no reason to change the death penalty, as it is working exactly as designed...

Know this: You are not 'entitled' to reach level 100!

You're entitled to level as far as your character build skills, trading skills, grinding skills and most of all, ability to control your character and make decisions when playing that ensure you're not dying, mandate.

If you can't advance further because you keep dying, it is because your skills in one or more of these areas are lacking, and you do not deserve to reach level 100.

Know this:

YOU ARE NOT "ENTITLED" TO SAY LEVEL 100 SHOULD BE OUT OF REACH!!!

A lot of players said that the death penalty doesn't WORK AS DESIGNED, here have a quote that highlights why, in case you didn't bother to read:

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KiadawP wrote:

The problem with the 'learning curve' argument is, Death penalty only matters very late into the game, well over the meaningful 'learning curve' part.

For a death penalty to be meaningful, it must be meaningful at any level & stage, not just when you are leveling in the 90s.

How meaningful is the exp lost at death at leveling when you can zerg bosses. When you are 'GOD' mode, there is no learning curve.

Death penalty is meaningless when you are leveling in story, as you can gain back the last exp in mins, even seconds
Death Penalty is meaningless unless you are HC
Death Penalty is not harsh when you are leveling up to about level 88.
Death Penalty is meaningless to one that have no intention to level up anymore, & there is NOT good reason not to convert to glass cannon.
Death penalty starts to hurt & get disproportionately worst towards lvl 100

Hence its a very very poor design.

Right now, level 100 can be reached disregarding "your character build skills, trading skills, grinding skills and most of all, ability to control your character and make decisions when playing that ensure you're not dying" as you just need to go "play safe content" as high as you can muster, bypassing all except the grinding part, and then via said "grinding" just sink time.

That is worst design possible, as it ACTIVELY DISCOURAGES the player to strive to constantly improve as soon as he reaches a threshold, makes him complacent due to level 100 "NO EXP LOST" status EVERY LEVEL UP, which encourages players to zerg and even worse, keep exploring difficult content ONLY THEN, and it marks short periods of "fun" between large periods of monotony and boredom, as SAFE CONTENT doesn't bring "danger" to the table.

Unfortunately, it's never a matter of "you can't advance further because you keep dying" or "because your skills in one or more of these areas area lacking", it's a sad question of "you feel like reaching 100, you have 2 options:

1) either go opie-op meta and outplay the game aka abuse anything that will give you a definite advantage, close to breaking the game

2) simply repeat clearing of the highest safe content until desired status is acquired"

The worst thing that happens, is if you take the "hard route" aka playing the game versus dangerous enemies on most difficult modded maps or special end game encounters, you are actually penalised MORE than those 2 common scenarios, and this "shafts" regular players for which PoE highlighted DIVERSITY and touted MEANINGFUL CHOICES as CORE ASPECTS. Unfortunately, that is hardly the case.

So why not let those players that want to ALWAYS be challenged, advance at a faster pace, due to them ALWAYS tackling the harshest content where 1 sole error can make the difference between success and defeat, and also render a lot of time invested null, without forcing them to "break the game", specially due to having ACCESS to said content more difficult???

I prefer a xp lock timer on death, rather then lose all the xp i've grind for. Or a large XP gap to grind, at least you'll know your making some sort of progression.

I like the risk-reward.

But IMHO OP is right.

Exp penalty needs to be in proportion to exp gain. When hours of focused grinding can be consumed by a single death, that seems askew to me.

I do not want death to be meaningless, but the penalty grows too large over time.

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lagwin1980 wrote:

It's been changed once, it won't change again because it supposed to be a learning tool, as in it fucking hurts to loose the xp so you figure out why you are dying and not do it again.

I'm dying because game balance is shit and there is a ton of situations where you can't survive. Enforced clear speed meta pushes you into reckless attacks and many enemies deal an enormous amount of damage giving little to no options to avoid it.

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Orbaal wrote:

If you want to avoid a death penalty: YES!
If you want to have fun: no.

Its that simple. If you wanna farm xp, you dont run crazy maps.

So the death penalty is a punishment for players who want to have fun. Makes sense. GGG hates letting players have fun, after all.