Berserkers make other builds impractical :(

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astraph wrote:

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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astraph wrote:

In 2013-2014 a 20K DPS melee tank build could clear all content. Try taking down Shaper or Guardians with 20K nowdays.... No matter how tanky you are you will fail.

And now the same tanks have 100-200k DPS... However, you cant call them "tanks" in full meaning of thatword, because they still cant facetank many things, and still can be insta-gibbed.

Well the same tanks are not really possible any more. Shields were giving far more block chance, the block passives were far more powerfull and acrobatics did not lower your block chance. So they basically capped block with far less investment and they were going ham on other defenses after that (hp, armour, eva etc.). Plus these guys literally invested less than 10 passives on offense which nowdays is imposible.

But yeah you are definetely right. Shaper does not care about your block, or your armour, or your evasion, or your dodge, or your physical damage reduction. The only thing effective against him is high HP and high DPS. And it gets worse since the longer it takes to kill him the harder it becomes. For me he is the worst designed boss in the game. SUre he is easy with high damage and good mobility, but you get the idea.

Sure, old builds dont work anymore, but new builds can still get block cap easily with their ascendacies (Necromancer or Gladiator).
Armour, evasion and physical reduction do help against Shaper's Slam, though they do little against his trio-balls and beam. I should say, though, that even overcapped cold resist does very little VS trio-balls and beam - balls have insane cold penetration anyway, and beam deals elemental damage, so you need all 3 elemental resists overcapped to reduce damage from it.
You're wrong a bit about Shaper. With certain invesntments into phys protection, you can facetank his teleport Slam, sure it DOES make a difference in a fight. You can protect yourself with relable defences, such as high HP recovery (VP, Slayer, etc), Fortify, MoM, pantheon bonuses (Soul of Yugul), etc.). With Slayer and chill immunity, you almost dont care about Vortexes, i've killed Shaper in party, where full room was littered by vortexes, and in middle there were 4-7 of them stacked (and i still stood there without loosing HP), it wasnt significantly more difficult until the very end, and i bet, my killing time for Shaper was apsolutely pathetic there...


I'm also sick of this "clearspeed meta", where killing the enemy before he kills you seems to be the best way to play the game. Not that it's impossible to build a relatively tanky character now, but he wont be rewarded much, actually.

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PayneK wrote:

I'm so tired of crybabies making GGG nerf everything that is practical instead of buffing what is useless and unusable.

..so many ascendencies have junk passives that don't synergize with anything and ppl always want to nerf the ones that do ..no wonder this game is dying do to excesive nerfs

Word m8 !

and my lust for mtx is dying with it !
no matter how awesome the Designers do it.

the nerfs probably destroy buiilds
the xp nerfs forcing you to quit !

if this is the way .. so go on !

just sad !

i think ist time for GGG to see what it can cause !
Nerf here nerf there .. bosses one hits you cause you got only 2 step for Manual evade.
this is starting kind of a big joke !

like i sayed sad .... just sad !

A great game with tonns of fun was this !

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zzang wrote:

we have fundamental difference how we want the game to be.

This. Thats why players should stop posting bullshit "balance" threads. Everybody wants different things; can't you just relax, play this game and be thankfull for that good/average free to play game? Let them play with whatever they want?

They can one shot everything with berserker or other broken class like it is "fun". Real players know the real challenge is creating complex stuff. Like, grinding gears. Why people so butthurt about other people's action that much?

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Jideament wrote:

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zzang wrote:

we have fundamental difference how we want the game to be.

This. Thats why players should stop posting bullshit "balance" threads. Everybody wants different things; can't you just relax, play this game and be thankfull for that good/average free to play game? Let them play with whatever they want?

They can one shot everything with berserker or other broken class like it is "fun". Real players know the real challenge is creating complex stuff. Like, grinding gears. Why people so butthurt about other people's action that much?

Thats whats bothering me too.

I guess (keyword being: guess) the idea here is:
GGG is balancing around the most OP builds. So if your builds isnt OP, you will struggle.
If the OP builds wont exist, GGG would tune down everything and thus making the non OP builds more viable.

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Jideament wrote:

Let them play with whatever they want?

It doesn't work like that.

There are two main factors that make a choice in a game like this, one of them is preference and the other one is power. The priority for those two factors is different from player to player, so, to put some numbers into that, a 10/90 player will almost always go for the optimal choice no matter how minor the power difference is, those aren't affected by balance differences. Also, we have 90/10 players which enjoy in putting the stuff they like together regardless of how strong they are, those aren't affected by it either.

The problem are those in the middle, those that care about the power difference but also appreciate the choice. So, if, for example you'd really like to try some combo and your desire to do it is 100 but the power difference between that and the optimal setup is 200, a 50/50 player would go for the optimal setup, as would the 60/40 player. You'd have to be at 70/30 to resist the temptation, and that means 70% of your playerbase uses the recommended setup, which is almost at D3 diversity level.

Goes without saying that the opposite isn't good either, if the power difference is, say, 10 or something, it invalidates the 'power' portion of choice and you're making it only on personal preference or the minmaxer kind of power gap, which again works only for the 90/10 and 10/90 edge cases and you want to make the game good for everyone. Mind you, having moderate power gaps doesn't mean only the middle will appreciate it, edge cases don't mind it either.

The problem with discussions like this is that some tend to assume that the only true PoE player is the 10/90 sort, which is a tall assumption.

You mean VP. Zerker is only master race because of VP. Take away VP/acuities and see how many ppl play him. I bet he is least played.