The Son of God:

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Darkfyre wrote:

This may also be of interest to you:

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22 e“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. dSo you shall purge the evil from Israel.
23 “If there is a fbetrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. dSo you shall purge the evil from your midst.
25 “But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor, 27 because he met her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her.

- Deuteronomy 22:22-27
The obvious difference in the type and target of punishment here is consent. If a woman who is betrothed or married lies with a man willingly (aka does not cry out for help or reject him) then they are both to be stoned. If the man forces himself on her and she cries out for help but is still raped, then only the the rapist is to be stoned to death. I have a feeling that even hardcore feminists would agree with this one. Put to death any man who commits rape. Yup, I'm sure they'd be on board.

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Also, the next issue you refer to with the rape victims, is actually dealt with quite nicely. It allows for the father of the woman to refuse for her to be married. The spirit of the law in this case is that the person who rapes the woman is obligated to then take care of her for life. This is meant as punishment for the rapist, not the rape victim. And of course she isn't required absolutely to marry him as is shown here:

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Kamchatka wrote:

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cipher_nemo wrote:

You have "good works", "faith", and "baptism". There are only so many combinations you can make with those three. In general, Catholics pretty much believe in needing all three, while Protestants believe in only needing "faith". Some Protestant denominations add "baptism" to that. Remember, we're talking requirements for salvation, not what is just encouraged by any denomination in general. All three are pretty much encouraged in every Christ-based church.

Four: You missed repentance.

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Kamchatka wrote:

Also Most of my family are the protestant denomination "Assembly of God" who do not just believe in baptism & Faith alone. I was raised Southern Baptist, another protestant denomination who also do not believe in "faith alone", although they do not believe in baptism.

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5. The Salvation of Man

Man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Conditions to Salvation

Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life.

Luke 24:47 [KJV/NIV]
John 3:3 [KJV/NIV]
Romans 10:13-15 [KJV/NIV]
Ephesians 2:8 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 2:11 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 3:5-7 [KJV/NIV]

The Evidence of Salvation

The inward evidence of salvation is the direct witness of the Spirit.

Romans 8:16 [KJV/NIV]

The outward evidence to all men is a life of righteousness and true holiness.

Ephesians 4:24 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 2:12 [KJV/NIV]

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Kamchatka wrote:

And you cannot ignore the thousands of non-denomination protestant sects who teach a wide variety of stuff: like the Church of Mars founded by Rob Bell, who teaches there is no hell. Or the mike Murdock Wisdom Foundation Church, who teaches that Christianity is a get rich quick scheme.

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Kamchatka wrote:

And you are misrepresenting Christianity, almost all Christians are Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, who share beliefs on salvation. And the largest protestant denomination is the Anglican church, who share the Catholic belief on salvation. And the 2nd biggest protestant church is "Assembly of God" Pentecostal church, who are very close to Catholics on salvation beliefs.

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Darkfyre wrote:

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bwam wrote:

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AbdulAlhazred wrote:

What would a Christian do if they came across a pagan that agreed to most Christian ideals, followed the ten commandments (which are arguably just good standards to live by regardless of religion), and said that Jesus' conception, rebirth, and "God" were all real possibilities? A pagan who still communicated with spirits, nature, and practiced magic

I'll answer for myself. In such a case, the person is already familiar with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If the person is a friend, being a good example of Grace and Love in action would be my way forward.... If the person is a stranger, the same applies ;p

As Christians, we are told one way to deal with people who practice witchcraft.

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Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

- Exodus 22:18

If you are a Christian, bwam, then know this, and follow God's word. Have nothing to do with them. Avoid them at all costs if possible. If they come to you, kill them. They are utterly evil. God's instruction in this matter is dead clear.

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Darkfyre wrote:

Also, the next issue you refer to with the rape victims, is actually dealt with quite nicely. It allows for the father of the woman to refuse for her to be married. The spirit of the law in this case is that the person who rapes the woman is obligated to then take care of her for life. This is meant as punishment for the rapist, not the rape victim. And of course she isn't required absolutely to marry him as is shown here:

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Wraeclastian wrote:

I think it's funny that so many people believe in "God" when there is zero proof of his/her/it's existence. With that said, the arguments in this thread are hilarious.

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

It's almost child-like how you have to be willing to believe so fully in an imaginary friend. I almost envy that kind of ability to lie to yourself and perceive something that's not there.

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

It's almost child-like how you have to be willing to believe so fully in an imaginary friend. I almost envy that kind of ability to lie to yourself and perceive something that's not there.

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cipher_nemo wrote:

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Kamchatka wrote:

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cipher_nemo wrote:

You have "good works", "faith", and "baptism". There are only so many combinations you can make with those three. In general, Catholics pretty much believe in needing all three, while Protestants believe in only needing "faith". Some Protestant denominations add "baptism" to that. Remember, we're talking requirements for salvation, not what is just encouraged by any denomination in general. All three are pretty much encouraged in every Christ-based church.

Four: You missed repentance.

It depends on how you define "faith". The two pivotal factors of Christian faith is belief and forgiveness (ie: repentance for one party, forgiveness for the other).

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Kamchatka wrote:

Also Most of my family are the protestant denomination "Assembly of God" who do not just believe in baptism & Faith alone. I was raised Southern Baptist, another protestant denomination who also do not believe in "faith alone", although they do not believe in baptism.

Assembly of God: https://ag.org/. Specifically from their statement of Salvation...

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5. The Salvation of Man

Man's only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Conditions to Salvation

Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life.

Luke 24:47 [KJV/NIV]
John 3:3 [KJV/NIV]
Romans 10:13-15 [KJV/NIV]
Ephesians 2:8 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 2:11 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 3:5-7 [KJV/NIV]

The Evidence of Salvation

The inward evidence of salvation is the direct witness of the Spirit.

Romans 8:16 [KJV/NIV]

The outward evidence to all men is a life of righteousness and true holiness.

Ephesians 4:24 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 2:12 [KJV/NIV]

The first part mentions the two I mentioned: faith and baptism. The second part mentions "evidence" of salvation, specifically "The outward evidence to all men is a life of righteousness and true holiness."

So note that the second part is not a requirement of salvation, but rather the evidence we should see of such salvation.

So Assembly of God teaches faith and baptism for salvation. That's in line with what I mentioned. If this was a Catholic church instead, they'd add that second evidence part, but treat it as a requirement because the Catholic church does not separate that.

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Kamchatka wrote:

And you cannot ignore the thousands of non-denomination protestant sects who teach a wide variety of stuff: like the Church of Mars founded by Rob Bell, who teaches there is no hell. Or the mike Murdock Wisdom Foundation Church, who teaches that Christianity is a get rich quick scheme.

Again, stop calling them "sects". The proper definition of sect is "a group that has separated from an established church; a nonconformist church." That implies that all of the Christians denominations and churches are separate from an established church. That simply isn't the case. If you want to call Protestantism a sect of Catholicism, then that may fit, but Protestantism was a movement, not its own church or specific group. The different groups of Christian churches are called denominations, or just "non-denominational church" if they're completely independent of any denomination. The use of "sect" is derogatory.

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Kamchatka wrote:

And you are misrepresenting Christianity, almost all Christians are Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, who share beliefs on salvation. And the largest protestant denomination is the Anglican church, who share the Catholic belief on salvation. And the 2nd biggest protestant church is "Assembly of God" Pentecostal church, who are very close to Catholics on salvation beliefs.

Almost all Christians are "Catholic of Eastern Orthodox"? lol. What rock are you living under?

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

Of "registered" members...

Catholicism: 1.2 billion
Protestantism: 600 - 800 million
Eastern Orthodoxy: 200 - 300 million

But keep in mind those are "registered" members. Non-denominational churches usually don't have "registered" members, which is why Protestants have been estimated by others to be an even larger group than Catholics. But that's still speculation. What we do know, however, is that you're wrong. ;-) Unless you'd like to go back and correct your usage of commas. Perhaps you misspoke?

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Kamchatka wrote:

And your posted numbers on Christianity prove my point: The vast majority of Christians are catholic & Orthodox. Approximately 2/3 Catholic/Orthodox, about 1/3 Protestant.

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Kamchatka wrote:

Faith alone ( and salvation assurance for that matter) is a dying concept

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Kamchatka wrote:

And maybe I should not use the term sects for Protestant denominations, I apologize, but sects is definitely correct when speaking of Protestant groups such as the Rob Bell's Church of mars, and Mike Murdock's Wisdom Foundation.

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Kamchatka wrote:

Edit: and add #5 for Salvation: A Christian cannot hold grudges against those who seek forgiveness, or God will withdraw his forgiveness from you, IE you will go to hell.