Remove xp loss on death, replace with xp bonuses for surviving

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morbo wrote:

Probably not. The problem with penalty is that it is a fixed % on every level. The XP loss penalty is linear, but the XP gain penalty is exponential. Which means that dying at high level hurts a lot (regaining the lost XP takes too long) and dying at lower levels is irrelevant.

But that is the point imho.
It should be more difficult to progress to the next level at higher level, not only longer, but more difficult, imho.

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de99ial wrote:

It should be at lest opportunity to reclaim at least part of lost exp. By finding body or totem or grave or tombstone.

As I said earlier : what would the point in PoE ??
Really dangerous situations while just going back to that place are very rare, and the traveling time is also ridiculously small when it actually matters. So what's the point ? -> almost none, this isn't like in a mmorpg.

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morbo wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

That makes a bit more sense already, maybe reviewing slightly the xp curve would satisfy some people of this thread then.

Probably not. The problem with penalty is that it is a fixed % on every level. The XP loss penalty is linear, but the XP gain penalty is exponential. Which means that dying at high level hurts a lot (regaining the lost XP takes too long) and dying at lower levels is irrelevant.

I'd redesign the penalty % to adapt to the character level. Let's say the penalty starts in "Part 2", say lvl 50, to give newbs breathing space: You loose 20% of your health at lvl 50 and 1% at lvl 99. Smooth the curve inside this interval as appropriate. 20% sounds like a huge penatly, but at lvl 50 you regain that XP very fast.

Well tuning the penalty in % increments that go like 99% for level 1, and 1% for level 100, with a way to opt for it to start post level 40 (Normal difficulty) would be the best until they add content up to level 100...

From a lore point of view would make sense as you "progress" and being an immortal that presumably learns from past experience, every death will set you back a little less as you gain experience...

Tune content to be harder, and have more interesting mechanics, so you could ask some honing of skills from your player base, instead of watching TV and just wasting time...

Tie the levels >90 to red tiers (90 to tier 11, 91 to tier 12 and so on until 95 to tier 15), and make those >95 chase the end game fights that will worth their time even from an EXP point, and you would improve the game tenfold.

Keep the additional EXP penalty as it is for those that want to advance in a slower way and you would have more balance regarding EXP even in this state of game where you have all these unbalanced mechanics - Volatiles, DD, immunities, reflect etc.

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Tie the levels >90 to red tiers (90 to tier 11, 91 to tier 12 and so on until 95 to tier 15), and make those >95 chase the end game fights that will worth their time even from an EXP point, and you would improve the game tenfold.

This is part of a broader difficulty discussion, but yeah I agree. Incentivize people to push for harder content, instead of falling back to T11 Strand. PoE was never good at incentivizing the player to push harder.

A major problem with locking levels to certain tiers, is the RNG nature of map drops and the associated cost of maintaining higher tiers. By doing that in the current system, you'd piss off a lot more people than just a handful of those who are mad a the current XP penalty. Locking XP to higher levels, would need a serious redesign on how the content is delivered to the player.

Any such changes will not happen, as long as GGG sees mapping primarily as a currency sink an/or a wealth gate to T16/Shaper drops. I just don't see GGG going back on their beloved economy pyramid design.

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morbo wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Tie the levels >90 to red tiers (90 to tier 11, 91 to tier 12 and so on until 95 to tier 15), and make those >95 chase the end game fights that will worth their time even from an EXP point, and you would improve the game tenfold.

This is part of a broader difficulty discussion, but yeah I agree. Incentivize people to push for harder content, instead of falling back to T11 Strand. PoE was never good at incentivizing the player to push harder.

A major problem with locking levels to certain tiers, is the RNG nature of map drops and the associated cost of maintaining higher tiers. By doing that in the current system, you'd piss off a lot more people than just a handful of those who are mad a the current XP penalty. Locking XP to higher levels, would need a serious redesign on how the content is delivered to the player.

Any such changes will not happen, as long as GGG sees mapping primarily as a currency sink an/or a wealth gate to T16/Shaper drops. I just don't see GGG going back on their beloved economy pyramid design.

One change would be enough - instead of an xxx% increased of level of maps dropped from the Atlas bonus, make it an up to 100% bonus of not dropping a map below the tier you're playing, so you would always make them tackle at least content as hard as they could, if not harder...

I don't even see how you can complain about death penalty when there is over 100 people in breach hard core at 100. They never died and many made it within 1 month. I don't know how many on SC. Point is if you want 100 it can/has be done you just don't want it want it easier.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I don't even see how you can complain about death penalty when there is over 100 people in breach hard core at 100. They never died and many made it within 1 month. I don't know how many on SC. Point is if you want 100 it can/has be done you just don't want it want it easier.

Well how many of them reached 100 only fighting Guardians/Shaper/Uber Atziri instead of just using the fastest leveling method by daisy chaining Shaped Strands or Gorges?

We might want some EXP incentive to play those fights but they could be considered everything except easy...

"

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Fruz wrote:

That makes a bit more sense already, maybe reviewing slightly the xp curve would satisfy some people of this thread then.

The issue isn't the XP curve, it is the death penalty itself.

No it's not, it's clearly not.
Cf Aim_deep's previous post.

The whole discussion is about couple of people that want to keep progressing even though they screw up.
Extreme cases of Volatile / DD needing to be addressed on their own, with real actual design changes.

The point here is : you want to keep progressing ? -> don't screw up.
And the death penalty is only as harsh as the xp is long to obtain at higher levels, and some xp boost in the higher tiers would give some incentive to players to run them + reduce a bit the harshness of the penalty.
Simple as that.

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What he is suggesting doesn't include resetting the experience penalty. He's trying to trigger people that want a better thought-out penalty.

Stacking and never resetting death penalty ?
Brilliant idea, you would screw .. wait no, that word isn't strong enough at this point, you would just fuck players that die couple of times (or more) up for good, and completely lock their character's progression.
Brilliant.

And you were speaking about jerk-move ? This one was all but constructive, I was actually bringing something to the conversation.

I can't believe what I just did.

I sat down, read this whole thread. In about 2-3 hours...

It's not easy for everyone to come to the same big solution, but one thing we all can agree on is that the end game content needs to go through some changes.
It's not right that people need to farm tier 11 maps for 1-3 weeks to get to level 100.

I believe Most people in this thread have pointed towards the same big problem.
End game content and character proggresion.

I truly believe GGG is working to make the game more balanced in any way possible. Not just for the casual player, but for the hardcore player aswell.

GGG wanted the game to be punishing thats a fact Chris Wilson said so himself, and they are adding death penalties to the next expansion.

I can almost say that i'm 99% sure that Chris wilson will try to balance the core gameplay in any way possible before removing death penalty.


For my personal opinion.

I've played this game since beta, and i have never had a problem what so ever with the death penalty. I actually felt it could be even harder. Because i wasn't a "hardcore" player because i didn't want to lose my character, but i still wanted something more out of standard.(but again i'm not going for level 100, level 100 means nothing to me). My level 90 builds can clear any end game content in the game, and i'm not much for trading or making double dipping builds.
I'm happy each time i see a person reach level 100 because that's a achievement in itself. I think its awesome for a player to reach level 100. I would never do it myself because why would I? As the game is right now its more about trying out different builds.
I have never 1 time got a character over level 91, and i don't feel bad at all. I don't feel the need to level to level 100, same with back in diablo 2, all my characters got to level 91-93.

Some people claimed that people left the game because of death penalties, thats not right though? They end up leaving because the game ain't balanced well enough, and i understand that. They blame the death penalty? The death penalty ain't the real culprit.


The problem I have leveling is exactly the same as everybody else have stated. The number 1 culprit the random one shots. Mostly happen when you are running a life build combined with melee.
First fix without hurting the game as it is now would be to remove the random 1 shot mechanics.

PS IMPORTANT.
If people don't yet know, they plan big changes to life, and energy shield, and double dipping effects. They are giving out a new defence only pantheon system next expansion (One which can help against big hits!!). All these changes should have a huge impact on the core gameplay balance. Together with the new acts, and general balance to skill gems passive skill tree, and much more.

Btw as a little sidenote. I would leave the game if they removed Death penalty. I believe others would to.

Lets all be nice to each other, some want a harder game me included, some want a more casual feel to the game. We should be able to achieve both I think thats what everyone has been trying to say hehe. There must be some other way to fix this problem. Some buffs to xp gain, and nerfs/removals of one shot mechanics

GGG = GOOD GAME GUYS :)

Many Regards a happy Path of Exile player
- Ferablekeft -

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Crackmonster wrote:

Whatever son, anyone can go back to read, you are just a stubborn one not worth arguing with since you aren't even close to touching any good points or getting what you are being told.

As i said from before i even argued you as i could see right away what i was dealing with, you don't don't even understand what you are being told - this leads to a situation where there is no point arguing you. No point whatsoever it just gives a person frustration trying to communicate with you. I gave you many many chances, i even explained in full detail the meaning of my own posts, your posts and how they tie together and still you failed to learn even the slightest from it. TYou do not listen at all, and you are epic stubborn and that is a bad combo. So it's quite your own fault no one takes your arguments serious and tends to get annoyed when arguing with you.

Ah! The classic rejection! Tell yourself (and maybe others) that his arguments are bad, and that he just doesn't understand. Or that he is dumb and nobody likes him (or take seriously).

That way you don't have to deal with his arguments, and therefore - you won!

Yaay you!

Something tells me you might be the one who doesn't want to listen to the other side. Don't know why, tho. HMMMMMMMM...

But yes, well, everything has been said in this thread a million times over and over again now, so I think this is a good time to wrap it up.