Donald Trump and US politics

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deathflower wrote:

The Constitution that embodies the philosophical ideas that your rights depend on? Right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. You can't claim unalienable rights and pick and choose who to give them to. People either have these natural right or they don't. These are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government.

First, the whole "endowed by our Creator" line is in the Declaration of Independence.

Second, they don't. Natural rights are a fiction. Rights are an artifice of government. Don't get me wrong, they're awesome, but your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is obviously nonexistent after the nuclear/zombie apocalypse.

Like everything government, rights require enforcement and enforcement costs money. Rights aren't free. morbo is essentially right here.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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deathflower wrote:

The Constitution that embodies the philosophical ideas that your rights depend on? Right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. You can't claim unalienable rights and pick and choose who to give them to. People either have these natural right or they don't. These are not dependent on the laws or customs of any particular culture or government.

First, the whole "endowed by our Creator" line is the Declaration of Independence.

Second, they don't. Natural rights are a fiction. Rights are an artifice of government. Don't get me wrong, they're awesome, but your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is obviously nonexistent after the nuclear/zombie apocalypse.

Like everything government, rights require enforcement and cost money. They aren't free. morbo is essentially right here.

Declaration of Independence is the foundation of political philosophy and principles through which the United States Constitution should be interpreted. Is it not? Without the people to uphold your constitution and its principles, you could say the United States Constitution is just a piece of paper. Without moral justifications, how do you motivate your peons to do these silly things such as protect your individual rights?

Liberals say Illegal immigrants pay taxes too and are a net positive and there are Conservatives who say they don't and they are a net drain. Can you prove that they are a net drain? You must not only prove that Illegal immigrants affect the economy negatively but all their negativity significantly outweigh all their benefits. This I find hard to believe.

Illegal immigrants have limited government entitlements. They often paying into taxes which they are not entitled to benefit from. That beg the question though. Why are they paying into taxes that they aren't entitled to benefit from? Illegal immigrants get taxed and get half ass benefits. If they half ass pay taxes, they are reasonably justified. To morally and legally collect taxes, you have to grant them citizenship.

If you send them back, you get nothing back. It is a long term investment. I believe in getting my investment back. I don't mean from them, I mean from their kids, and their children's children. You granted former slaves citizenship and you fear Mexicans? It is a good investment, trust me. Generations of future tax payers, this make my mouth water.

Meanwhile, fascist tyrant of the USA reduces debt:

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In First 2 Months in Office: Trump Reduced Debt by $100 Billion – Obama Increased Debt by $400 Billion

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/355719/

Warning: Article at link includes charts which may trigger the faint of heart (or the weak of math). =^[.]^=

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鬼殺し wrote:

So the 'we' is abstract for the most part, and highly localised. Okies. I had hopes otherwise. :(

Abstract? Its the exact opposite of abstract. In addition to what I am currently working on, in the past I've helped a few people gain citizenship. Immigration lawyers don't invite someone over to dinner with their families because they think that person is against their clients interests.

Localised - to the extent that I'm not planning on running for office, and I don't want to tell others what to think. I do what I can.

Re:Immigration, I'll just say again that conflating legal immigration with illegal immigration is extraordinarily dishonest.

Of course we want immigrants. The country is made by and of them.

We want people to understand our laws and our freedoms first, and we want them to pay taxes -- to become truly naturalized. Immigration is more than just living somewhere. I almost wish we had the crazy Swiss system of requiring all your neighbors to vote on your naturalization. Peer pressure is how culture is made and maintained, after all.

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sarahaustin wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

Jesus christ, take it to PMs or something.

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Re:Immigration, I'll just say again that conflating legal immigration with illegal immigration is extraordinarily dishonest.

Of course we want immigrants. The country is made by and of them.

We want people to understand our laws and our freedoms first, and we want them to pay taxes -- to become truly naturalized. Immigration is more than just living somewhere. I almost wish we had the crazy Swiss system of requiring all your neighbors to vote on your naturalization. Peer pressure is how culture is made and maintained, after all.

Um, in case you didnt know, americans came from europe and are violent settlers who killed the natives. You cant say "illegal immigration is bad" without looking stupid because the natives should be given their land back and run the country, not some fat ugly white guy who gets rich by scamming people.

what happened 400 years ago is irrelevant.....

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pneuma wrote:

I almost wish we had the crazy Swiss system of requiring all your neighbors to vote on your naturalization. Peer pressure is how culture is made and maintained, after all.

I think citizenship hearings should go from judge-based to jury-based. 7 out of 12 and you're in.