Donald Trump and US politics

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sarahaustin wrote:

Well, the GOP is full of racists and is nazi like. Denying that is just stupid.

Actually conservatism isn't nazi like at all, at least from a political (non-social) ideological perspective. Conservatives want smaller government, free markets, individual liberty and personal responsibility where national socialists wanted a stronger government with government having more control over the economy and the individual taking a back seat to a person's role towards the state.

Liberals are closer to nazism than conservatives.

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GeorgAnatoly wrote:

Liberals are closer to nazism than conservatives.

Biggest differences between Fascism and Communism is the nature of the social policies enforced via authoritarian legislation, as well as how their economies functioned. You could own land, and private business under a Fascist economy. But the economy was regulated in a way that was congruent with whatever their social policies were. Fascists most definitely decided "what was good for the people", and dictated their policies as such. As with Communism, there is no freedom of speech, or freedom of press, etc. Both had severe punishments for criminals, like way more things they would execute people for, both indefinitely incarcerated political prisoners, etc.

Liberals are the ones who want to tell everybody else what's good for them. Stuff like limiting the sizes of soft drinks is a position that's neutral on a left-right scale, but is within the realm of stuff a Fascist government might also do. Authoritarians on the left and right might universally agree that sodas are bad, so sodas should be limited or possibly banned because they want people to live healthier. Fascists might also do stuff like adopt a 1 child policy, if they believed the country was overpopulated, and didn't have enough resources to go around. Or in Germany's case, use that as justification for invading their neighbors to acquire more space and resources.

ITT, people thinking people are racist or not depending on their party affiliation.


Hint: It dun work like that.

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sarahaustin wrote:

Well, the GOP is full of racists and is nazi like. Denying that is just stupid.

Not full. Still room for some more.

Unless, of course, one is an anti-white racist. In that case, one would find kindred spirits among the Democrats.

Not a racist? Well then, it's harder to clarify your US political party. Might have to actually analyze the issues or something.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Bold mine, of course.

With all due respect, old friend, and that's a hell of a lot, I'm not sure who this 'we' is you're talking about here. I think we can both agree neither of us are what either side would consider the typical representative of our respective camps...but I'd be really appreciative if you'd take the effort to more clearly define this 'we' with which you identify.

I mean "We the People...". I could have used "United States" instead of "we" but nation states - despite all the rhetoric, don't really have souls or emotions, so I chose to use We to mean the people in the US. As in the United States and its citizens need to get their act together and find solutions for the problems of immigration and stop spending 95%+ of their effort on demonizing anyone who isn't spouting the code lines they have already accepted. This isn't to say I am excluding anyone else from having noble sentiments. I am just saying that since these are our laws, policies and problems in dispute, we need to own up to finding a solution, and not put our fingers to the wind to see what global sentiment tells us to do.

I think individually, the vast majority of people are far nicer than they act as a collective of any kind. When it is done by personal choice, people tend to be more forgiving and accepting than when an outside agency makes the decisions.

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鬼殺し wrote:

It seems to me that despite being on the other side of the fence, you'd do the same as me. You'd take a personal hit (not a fatal one, of course) if it meant bringing the world closer to your idea of morally 'good'.

There's a reason you only see me sporadically on the forum (and in game) and it is the opposite of financial gain. It is voluntary and by choice. I have no desire to publicly state what I am doing, as I am not doing it for accolades.

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鬼殺し wrote:

I may be reading this wrong, but the 'we' you're talking about there seems much more concerned with a greater good than the self, which I feel you'd call 'the nation'.

The nation (of which I live in)is more of a "local" area that I feel I can do something positive about.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Whatever may be said otherwise, I DO NOT BELIEVE a great many American patriots would put 'the nation' above their immediate family and wealth.

Everyone's altruism has limits, but I don't think we have tapped the potential that's there. Part of the problem is overcoming skepticism, and part of it is understanding the depth of the problem and having a realistic solution.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Ah, but what of those who choose to serve in the military? Of those I've known, most did it to get an affordable college education or out of some post-highschool rut. I've never met one who did it, first and foremost, to make America a better place than it is.

Of the many I know, maybe 1/3 just did it for the job/benefits etc. For some, the structured environment is beneficial. The majority of the ones I know who served or are currently serving did it because they thought the good people in the world needed protecting from the bad people in the world. They don't always agree that US Policy achieves that, but the blame for that falls mostly on the people deciding where the troops are going, not the ones that go.

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鬼殺し wrote:

There's a reason military recruitment ads have to put personal incentive in

Some of the reasons imo:

1 Possible death or dismemberment with the job.

2 Commitment (service agreement) to the job with no backing out (what other jobs will you go to prison for quitting?)

3 Far less pay (for skilled positions). If they leave while still young enough to get hired on, some military specialists can make double to triple the pay they are making.

4 Giant bureaucracy. Imagine 25% of your blood cells stopping for 2 hours a day and having meetings. Imagine that your elbows had to help decide what the kidneys were going to do. The bigger the organization, the more frustrating some of the daily stuff gets. Picture GGG with 325 support people who had to analyze and approve Off Topic posts in just this thread.

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鬼殺し wrote:

-- here in Australia, it's all about enriching one's knowledge and scope. Getting out of that White Australian Little World mentality. At any rate, I do believe the basic mentality of capitalism is self-above-others. And I'm not sure how many flag-waving, God-fearing Americans view 'America' as the self outside of times of extreme crisis and polarised scenarios where the us-vs-them is very, very clear.

The threat response is part of our biology and culturally inherited "wisdom". A large part of what see in the protests against Trump aren't just people who have an ideological disagreement. Many (not all) genuinely feel that Trump is a threat to the future of society. While I disagree with their overall analysis of the threat, I actually want to applaud them for trying to do something about a problem, rather than just let it go by.

If we can get the mistrust out of the way, and have people talk TO each other, all this energy on both sides can be turned towards solving problems. I am hoping (and my hope may be misplaced) that Trump and his political opponents still have enough decency and thought process to realize that we don't need to fix everything perfectly all at once.

We can get there in small steps just fine.

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MrSmiley21 wrote:

LOL David Pakman Show.

Never heard of him so he must not be very popular.

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sarahaustin wrote:

Well, the GOP is full of racists and is nazi like. Denying that is just stupid.

Both sides have their thugs. The trick is not letting either dominate the discussion, or become the symbol of the majority who aren't this way. Our leaders don't define who we are as people anymore than they are responsible for our personal actions.

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DalaiLama wrote:

Both sides have their thugs. The trick is not letting either dominate the discussion, or become the symbol of the majority who aren't this way. Our leaders don't define who we are as people anymore than they are responsible for our personal actions.

It is hard not to let the leftist snowflakes become the symbol of the democratic party when they call all Trump supporters nazis and white nationalists. Meanwhile, they physically attack Trump supporters, riot and destroy millions of dollars in property and call it protesting while wearing masks that hide their cowardly faces.

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Wraeclastian wrote:

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DalaiLama wrote:

Both sides have their thugs. The trick is not letting either dominate the discussion, or become the symbol of the majority who aren't this way. Our leaders don't define who we are as people anymore than they are responsible for our personal actions.

It is hard not to let the leftist snowflakes become the symbol of the democratic party when they call all Trump supporters nazis and white nationalists. Meanwhile, they physically attack Trump supporters, riot and destroy millions of dollars in property and call it protesting while wearing masks that hide their cowardly faces.

So are you accusing people of wrongly generalising, while you yourself are wrongly generalising?

Or are you claiming you are right to generalise, but they are not?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Wraeclastian wrote:

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DalaiLama wrote:

Both sides have their thugs. The trick is not letting either dominate the discussion, or become the symbol of the majority who aren't this way. Our leaders don't define who we are as people anymore than they are responsible for our personal actions.

It is hard not to let the leftist snowflakes become the symbol of the democratic party when they call all Trump supporters nazis and white nationalists. Meanwhile, they physically attack Trump supporters, riot and destroy millions of dollars in property and call it protesting while wearing masks that hide their cowardly faces.

So are you accusing people of wrongly generalising, while you yourself are wrongly generalising?

Or are you claiming you are right to generalise, but they are not?

I am simply telling it like it is. You may not like it but it is reality.

You special snowflakes can cry nazi and racism all you want but the conservatives aren't the ones destroying public property, illegally blocking roadways, or assaulting people for simply having a difference of opinion.