After taking estrogen for three months!

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MonstaMunch wrote:

Snip

It's not all a cop out, it's exactly what it is. The study is 100% a quant approach that provides a conclusion over the course of 30 years in a person's life. It's a little hard to dismiss, irrespective of one's preference for stats and numbers....especially if you're going to outright select on the DV.

They admit as much.

Their conclusion states: Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population.

From this study it's completely un-obvious that reassignment was the putative cause for future suicidal action. It just happens to be one event in a 30 year period....one event of many from a qualitative perspective. They flatly say this: "no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment" We have no idea why things got worse, or when they got worse. You had surgery. 10 years later something bad happened. How again does this study confirm the surgery is the putative cause for the problem? All the researchers know is that at some point in the lives of the 324 they changed their identity on a form. Again, 100% quant approach is not a cop out. It's an obvious limitation of the study that calls into question its conclusion, the very same conclusion you cited earlier.

Never said you assigned cause or effect. I'm saying I read the article and that was my takeaway. You cited it as evidence for something. I don't think it's hard evidence much of anything. That's all.

There are those of us that do care deeply for Ms. Peng as she is, and as she will be. As long as there are good people that care and support her, I feel that will lower the odds of her becoming suicidal by a good percentage. Mind you this is a feeling, and cannot be quantified, as emotions are not quantifiable by scientific standards.

I for one find her quite fetching and attractive as she is, and will be. So she can rest assured there is someone out there, as I'm sure there are others that believe as I do.

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MonstaMunch wrote:

You missed my point; I don't think gender dysphoria is a mental illness (or more accurately, I don't know, I'm not a mental health expert and neither are you), but you implied that it is. If it isn't, then why can't we compare rates of mental health problems between cis and transgender people (post op or pre op)?

It used to be classified that way under the DSM IV. Under the DSM V - it isn't classified as a disorder, unless it causes significant distress to a person. People without gender identity considerations are still subject to mental distress when they can't live the role that they expect or are expected to. This is similar for someone who loses their job, for instance, or someone who has always led an active life in sports and now due to heart issues, can no longer participate. The loss of role/identity exacerbates depression, which can lead to suicidal ideation or attempts.

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MonstaMunch wrote:

"

Laurium wrote:

the impossibility of properly controlling the study around the operationalized variable, in this case the mental well-being of people with sex-reassignment surgery..........

The authors are interpreting health of transsexuals after reassignment without identifying if said surgery addressed the underlying psychiatric problem in the first place. That sounds like a lot of bullshit to me. In that case, the surgery itself might be completely incidental to the eventual suicide.

Everything about this study is quantitative...numbers, statistics, confidence intervals, significance, etc. I'd suggest the whole field of gender reassignment is much more than that.

Much more than that in what sense? The point is that 41% of people who had reassignment tried to kill themselves. Saying "those are just numbers and statistics, it's more complicated than that" is a total cop out.

I wasn't assigning cause or effect, simply noting the astonishingly high number of people who have surgery then end up with serious mental problems. It would be of valid concern for anyone who cares about someone who is considering it.

Not sure if this is the study you are referring to (it shows 41% and the data are from around the same timeline) http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Although they aren't the same study population, I was able to find a more recent (Nov 2016) study that looked at the suicide rates without operation, and for the US - they had the same rate 41%

..................

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/#ref8


"The suicidal behavior and suicide attempt rates are reported to be significantly high among transgender persons compared to general population across the countries. Thirty-one percent of transgender persons in India end their life by committing suicide, and 50% of them have attempted for suicide at least once before their 20th birthday;[6] however, the exact prevalence of completed suicide among transgender persons in the country remain undocumented.[6]

Forty-one percent of the transgender persons in the United States attempt for suicide at least once in their life.[8] In San Francisco, the prevalence of attempted suicide among transgender persons is 32%, among young age (<25 years) it is 50%.[9]
Suicidality and self-harm behavior are serious problems among sexual minorities in Japan.[10] Transgender persons are at higher risk for suicidal ideation and suicide attempts at Virginia.[11] Fifty percent of transgender persons in Australia have attempted suicide at least once in their lives.[12] In England, 48% of the transgender young people had attempted suicide at least once in their lives.[13] The prevalence of suicide remains high among transgender persons irrespective of disclosing their transgender status to others and undergoing sex reassignment surgery."

......................


Although Neuroscience is a complex field, compared to the human mind, the field of study is still in its infancy. Genetics play a large role in some instances, and in others they only set the field for the person's environment to play the dominant role.

One thing we do understand is that because of the underlying neurochemistry, mood disorders are very responsive to modern medicine. A supportive environment, and therapeutic measures (treatment, social support etc) can reduce suicide and improve the quality of life for people with depression, anxiety and other conditions.

To reiterate the initial point - gender identity isn't a distressing issue or mental disorder for all people. For some it is, and hopefully for those people they will seek whatever treatment ultimately brings them a more enjoyable life. It may take weeks, months or years to get there, but it is possible. As Dan Savage says "It gets better"

http://www.itgetsbetter.org/pages/about-it-gets-better-project/

The social construct known as gender identity is a fictional construct. There is no gene for wearing a dress or wearing makeup. No chemical basis for the 'homosexual' high pitched soft speech, odd inflections, and feminine mannerisms.

It is up to each of us to determine what is the 'best' way in which to behave, and act it out. Regardless of whether such behavior is traditionally classified as feminine or masculine. To wholly conform to a masculine or feminine persona (as defined by culture) shows a lack of insight on the subject.

To love someone of your same gender is perfectly fine imo, who is anyone to tell you otherwise. Again, it is a lack of insight which leads to such hate. Strict adherence to what has come before. And blinding conformity to ones culture. These are evils that are all to common.

Dont let culture define who you are as a person though.

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SkyCore wrote:

No chemical basis for high pitched speech

Men have deeper voices because testosterone affects the formation of the voice box. Not everything is a social construct.

As for the rest, live and let live mentality goes a long way. It's not necessary to understand why people do what they do as long as it's understood that what they do doesn't hurt anybody.

In this specific case, I don't really get why the OP wants an elective surgery, but it doesn't affect me. I'm sure the OP has good intentions as do the doctors and it'll probably all work out in the end.

http://www.outsports.com/2017/3/20/14983388/transgender-weightlifting-laurel-hubbard-wins

"

Transgender weightlifter wins international women’s competition, sets national record

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All of this has riled up some folks who see it as uneven playing fields. Garry Marshall, the president of Olympic Weightlifting New Zealand, said his governing body is simply applying the rules set forth by the IOC. Those rules allow Hubbard to compete as a woman after undergoing certain transitional steps.

With Hubbard’s eyes on bigger prizes, and the next Summer Olympic Games now three years away, this issue isn’t going away anytime soon.

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pneuma wrote:

"

SkyCore wrote:

No chemical basis for high pitched speech

Men have deeper voices because testosterone affects the formation of the voice box. Not everything is a social construct.

I spent way to long trying pussy foot around offending anyone... You are right of course, and i knew that from the beginning. But what i was trying to get at is that talking like many homosexuals with the high pitch and odd inflections is not the result of chemicals. As opposed to puberty which deepens the voice.

Ill see if i can find a better way to phrase it in an edit.