Put in an auction house with buyout

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Bone2flesh wrote:

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Necromael wrote:

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wiggin wrote:

PRetty much every modern multiplayer game was ruined by having auction house like that, why do you wanna ruin PoE as well?

Please list me those ruined games, I can't think of any.

Diablo 3. The RMAH and than the currency only AH has made them lose most of the player base. That is why people lost faith in the franchise and never went back to it even if they have removed them and improved the game tenfold.

The great thing about GGG is that they learned from the mistakes of other companies (that are huge compared to them and have more experience) and did not have to make them themselves as well. Simple steps in not messing up your game.

You are now literally asking them to implement and try to make work a system that no other company managed to in a game like this. Why even take that kind of risk when everything works fine the way it is.

Furthermore the concept if just stupid. Auction house does not even fit in the world well (neither did it in D3). We are all exiles on some god forsaken continent. there is not social structure to even justify a feature like that so trading between exiles makes the most sense. I know you can argue on this one it's just a game but these developers care about the lore and a lot of the player base cares too.

Final point is that you simply have to deal with it. They clearly mentioned they will not do it and they don't seem the type to cave on these things because of some of player base crying.

Thats not "every modern multiplayer game". That is only D3 and anyone who played it and followed forums and news at that time knew that the thing that ruined d3 were design choices and not Rmah.

If that is what ruined D3 how come their playerbase is now at their lowest now that rainbows and unicorns and ssf are everywhere? You presented a poor argument, at least.

I'm still waiting for some example that isn't d3.

D3 was fantastic. Screw the haters. I left D3 the day they stopped trade and they went SF and came here. PoE trade is not awful - still serves the main purpose of trade - play what you want, min maxing etc but it's very inconvenient with more scams than AH ever had. One thing for sure price fixers didnt fly if someone try and dupe ppl into selling low with fake listings they wouldnt be fake long. the trade bots would grab them second they listed.

AH was ahead of its time. Blizzard only mistakes were allowing millions of searches a second so only bots could get all the best deals and last second bidding instead of a random few hrs window on open auctions. Again bots got many last bids in.

Now I actually recall, I played for a long time before poe, for about 6 years, a korean MMO, which had an AH and plenty of bots.

Both trade bots and grind bots. Big part of economy, mainly resources and map entries were centered around prices bots would put up.

Game was far from ruined, and it still runs, 11 years later. Endgame gear and content was not accessible to bots so they could only sell something in range of PoEs tier1-7 maps. And ingame currency earned from it was used to sell it for real money.

So my guess is, bots would be too obvious, as they would be limited on few methods of earning currency to sell it. Chaos recipe bots are alive even now. And other methods aren't as good to earn stable currency flow and would be easily detectable by some data mining and scripts which search for certain patterns.

Only thing left would be market manipulation, which happens even now without AH.

My conclusion is that AH wouldn't change much if implemented correctly, it would only be a QoL and bots/scripting would remain same as ever.

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Bone2flesh wrote:

Furthermore the concept if just stupid. Auction house does not even fit in the world well (neither did it in D3). We are all exiles on some god forsaken continent. there is not social structure to even justify a feature like that so trading between exiles makes the most sense. I know you can argue on this one it's just a game but these developers care about the lore and a lot of the player base cares too.

Final point is that you simply have to deal with it. They clearly mentioned they will not do it and they don't seem the type to cave on these things because of some of player base crying.

a) So what is poe.xyz? Doesn't really fit then, either. You'd have to set up an ingame market place where people could have stalls, display their stuff and sell it.
Or, since we're exiles on a god forsaken continent, mostly criminals at that, we just kill everyone and take the loot.
Moreover, from what I as someone who is interested in the story experienced, MOST of the player base doesn't care about the lore.

b) They clearly mentioned other things before and changed their minds/ gave in to the players who wanted this or that.

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Necromael wrote:

Thats not "every modern multiplayer game". That is only D3 and anyone who played it and followed forums and news at that time knew that the thing that ruined d3 were design choices and not Rmah.

If that is what ruined D3 how come their playerbase is now at their lowest now that rainbows and unicorns and ssf are everywhere? You presented a poor argument, at least.

I'm still waiting for some example that isn't d3.

Okay if the RMAH is not the reason D# is ruined that why was it removed?

And please read my post again. The RMAH was the reason the player base left. When people get their trust broken then tend to stir away. That is why it's at it's lowest the player base. I already explained that clearly you choose to blindly ignore it.

Also why do we have to give you a example where it failed? We and GGG need to prove nothing to you. We know why it's not it: it does not work and to make it work it may be very difficult or impossible.

You can't simply disregard a perfectly good example (the best possible considering the genre) that shows it failed due to the feature being removed by the developer. You asked for example but you find it hard to swallow? Train your gag reflex and take in friend.

The logical course of action when someone wants something is to make an argument to prove us nonbelievers why it should be implemented.

So go ahead friend prove me and the GGG developer team, with examples of current similar games, where this works. You have the interest to prove this works.

PS Please don't be basic and exemplify with WOW:

- the genre is totally different.
- the AH in wow is broken and spammed as fuck by gold sellers and price manipulators. The function is there but a nightmare to use without a serious add-on.

Looking at your post history I find it not worth to explain myself to you, sorry.

Let's just stay at that, that we disagree.

"I want to buy everything I need, and should be able to do so without any effort". Why should you be able to buy everything you need - when you need it? Why?

Repercussions of an AH:

1) More people will trade. More items will be available. Lots of items will be cheaper. More accessible.

2) Because of "1)", progression will feel even slower than today, because the shit you find will NEVER be able to compete against 90% of the stuff on the AH.

3) Because of "1)", it's VERY naive to think that GGG won't be forced to regulate drop rates based on the new accessibility of gear. Therefore, playing the actual game will feel like a freakin' currency farming job, and not a progression based aRPG.

4) Because of "1), 2) and 3)", trading will become even more required than today, making trade a "must" for even the slightest feel of progression.

Trading should always be a supplement for efficiency, not a requirement.

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Necromael wrote:

Looking at your post history I find it not worth to explain myself to you, sorry.

Let's just stay at that, that we disagree.

My post history has nothing to do with the fact that you find yourself in a situation that you request something to be implemented without a valid reason. Thus the "burden of proof" falls on you and other players who share your opinion.

Please do not be so simple as to use my post history or whatever I may have said as an excuse to bolt. It's slightly pathetic you would even take the time to check my post history (if you even did) to use it as an escape hatch when I make more sense.

Play fotm build, farm currency till eyes drop out. I don't see any progression in that unless playing ssf.

At above post, i'm still waiting for an example. You didn't provide it in few posts, I can't take your posts seriously, sorry.

Also I didnt request anything to be implemented, reading comprehension please. If we are to wage forum wars using "logic" and "pettiness".

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Phrazz wrote:

Trading should always be a supplement for efficiency, not a requirement.

The question is, whether it is not already the latter.

@Bone2Flesh
Necromael specifically doubted wiggin's post

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wiggin wrote:

PRetty much every modern multiplayer game was ruined by having auction house like that, why do you wanna ruin PoE as well?

and asked for a list of those games, and D3 had already been mentioned earlier in this thread. So if you now mention D3 and not even one of the other "every modern multiplayer game"s, this sounds like there are no other good examples of why an AH might be bad.

The burden of proof that an AH would be detrimental lies with the people claiming it would be, especially if their argument runs along the lines of "D3 was ruined because of the AH/ RMAH/ Both and so was every other modern (cf. wiggin) multiplayer game with an AH".

If other people can't think of other games that were ruined and you refuse to name other examples than D3 (and I already stated that at least for me it was not the AH that made me not play D3 anymore; and I think I'm not that unique) but keep on using the AH=ruined game equation, then you have to provide some. If you can and Necromael (or I, for that matter) can't come up with a valid argument why an AH would actually good, then things would be exactly the other way round and the people wanting an AH would have the burden of proof.
As it stands now, there's the claim that an AH would be a bad thing, (only) one example where it might have been a bad thing and a claim that "every modern multiplayer game" was ruined by an AH, without any examples to back it up (the "every" is of course only hyperbole, some more examples than D3 would suffice).

Now Phrazz has a real point, although we can't know whether things would turn out that way without trying it.