The way to buff HP is to buff kaoms heart back!

The problem is ES and life aren't different enough anymore, most of the life mechanics are transferable to ES and those few inherent problems a CI build has are too easily solved nowadays. So, CI is just a more expensive (and probably not expensive enough) form of life that comes in larger amounts, and if one-twoshotting players is the best way to kill them buffer size becomes way too important.

So, I agree that ways of restoring our buffer should be dialed down and that ES differences should not be trivialized so easily. Unfortunately, ain't nobody got the time for that shit, why should they even bother?
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
Monster and player damage rises every major patch yet monster health and player defenses stay mostly the same.


It should be apparent GGG's grand scheme is to keep everyone interested by preventing them from leveling to 100(90) with continuous nerfs to exp gains and player defenses.

What will this mean? Global ES values halved. Now life is exactly on par with ES and the latter goes back to trash bin with CoC where it belongs.
IGN: Arlianth
Check out my LA build: 1782214
"
raics wrote:
The problem is ES and life aren't different enough anymore, most of the life mechanics are transferable to ES and those few inherent problems a CI build has are too easily solved nowadays. So, CI is just a more expensive (and probably not expensive enough) form of life that comes in larger amounts, and if one-twoshotting players is the best way to kill them buffer size becomes way too important.

So, I agree that ways of restoring our buffer should be dialed down and that ES differences should not be trivialized so easily. Unfortunately, ain't nobody got the time for that shit, why should they even bother?

^ In fact that is the whole story! The difference between life and es is just meeeh these days. The only real difference is that you can grab far more es than life, that's it. So there are only two ways to "fix" this. The easy way would be to buff all the life nodes again but in my opinion the better way would be to lower es and lower the dmg that mobs deal these days. But the second approach would be much more costly therefore I can only see ggg buff lifenodes again or rename the game to path of es.
German saying: Schönheit und Funktionalität in Sekundenschnelle zu ruinieren, ist dem wahren Dilettanten keine Herausforderung!
torturo: "Though, I'm really concerned, knowing by practice the capabilities of the balance team."
top2000: "let me bend your rear for a moment exile"
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Bars wrote:
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Ceri wrote:

Quite frankly the only way GGG has to kill players these days is oneshots, when people are running around with 12-15k ES with 5-6K regen and instant leech on their 200k+ dps builds.. How do you threaten someone like that? You need to hit harder than their total EHP pool in one hit.


Show me this 12-15k ES build with 200k+ DPS, 5-6k regen and instant leech.

I'm waiting.



I was pulling numbers out of my behind obviously, but I don't see how they aren't realistic. I made a Caustic Arrow build in the league (Occultist) and she has almost 11k ES w/ 5K regen, and is only lev 80 in garbage gear. Replace CA with any decent skill that supports leech, adjust tree accordingly, add Vaal Pact, Ghost Reaver and good gear?
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Ceri wrote:
"
Bars wrote:
"
Ceri wrote:

Quite frankly the only way GGG has to kill players these days is oneshots, when people are running around with 12-15k ES with 5-6K regen and instant leech on their 200k+ dps builds.. How do you threaten someone like that? You need to hit harder than their total EHP pool in one hit.


Show me this 12-15k ES build with 200k+ DPS, 5-6k regen and instant leech.

I'm waiting.



I was pulling numbers out of my behind obviously, but I don't see how they aren't realistic. I made a Caustic Arrow build in the league (Occultist) and she has almost 11k ES w/ 5K regen, and is only lev 80 in garbage gear. Replace CA with any decent skill that supports leech, adjust tree accordingly, add Vaal Pact, Ghost Reaver and good gear?


You either have the regen or you have VP.

The highest known regen tank in the game is Dyness with ~5k regen at 20k ES and next to no damage. Also, his gear isn't exactly accessible. If you're talking about ES recharge rate, that's something else entirely and it doesn't count, even for an Occultist, because it's highly unreliable.

Anyway, about the whole life vs. ES thing, I won't go into the pointless debate, I said my part - I think life should be buffed, not ES nerfed, because shit's doing preposterous damage in high-tier content.

/out
The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again.
Last edited by Bars on Oct 1, 2016, 6:34:24 AM
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Bars wrote:
You either have the regen or you have VP.

I suppose you can have regen and VP with Shav ring and a few other tricks but certainly not too much of it.

If we really can't have any meaningful reworks to the whole thing I'd sooner be for nerfing ES and monster damage than buffing life - which is pretty much the same thing without the power creep aspect. Though all of it is honestly bull, if we don't have strong pros and cons in either scenario it all boils down to raw amount, we can either get a big enough buffer advantage with ES or we don't bother, which also happened a few times.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
Last edited by raics on Oct 1, 2016, 6:44:13 AM
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raics wrote:
"
Bars wrote:
You either have the regen or you have VP.

I suppose you can have regen and VP with Shav ring and a few other tricks but certainly not too much of it.

If we really can't have any meaningful reworks to the whole thing I'd sooner be for nerfing ES and monster damage than buffing life - which is pretty much the same thing without the power creep aspect. Though all of it is honestly bull, if we don't have strong pros and cons in either scenario it all boils down to raw amount, we can either get a big enough buffer advantage with ES or we don't bother, which also happened a few times.


It will be insignificant and you have no mana regen with the shav ring. There are a few other pure ES regen sources in the game but, again, they are minimal. '5-6k regen' was a gross and misleading overstatement, that's all there is to it.

Reminds me of the nurf coc brigade where they were pulling numbers out of thin air 'hurr durr you can do millions of damage on a 20c budget blah bah'.

I should return to my 'stay out of balance threads' policy, I can feel my aggro increasing.
The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again.
"
raics wrote:
The problem is ES and life aren't different enough anymore, most of the life mechanics are transferable to ES and those few inherent problems a CI build has are too easily solved nowadays. So, CI is just a more expensive (and probably not expensive enough) form of life that comes in larger amounts, and if one-twoshotting players is the best way to kill them buffer size becomes way too important.

So, I agree that ways of restoring our buffer should be dialed down and that ES differences should not be trivialized so easily. Unfortunately, ain't nobody got the time for that shit, why should they even bother?


In EHC, i loot 2 item ES then complete the gear with alt + transmute + fail regal and 7 caos for a chest ::::> 10k5 ES, GL with life. Let craft % life on jewelry, up life on the tree or an affix with % life. Life is more expensive (for being safe in hight tier) and don't scale. In temp league.
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Bars wrote:
It will be insignificant and you have no mana regen with the shav ring. There are a few other pure ES regen sources in the game but, again, they are minimal. '5-6k regen' was a gross and misleading overstatement, that's all there is to it.

It probably doesn't matter. The point is we should try and imagine ourselves as PoE dungeon masters, how would you go about killing something that has a large buffer and replenishes it at a bullshit rate? We can't have half of the monster roster taking Bloodless and the other half using Frost bomb.

It's god mode, and that's supposed to be the ultimate evolution of your character, not something you can cobble up over the weekend.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
edit: double post
The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again.
Last edited by Bars on Oct 1, 2016, 7:16:54 AM

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