Evasion/Dodge/Raider improvements

No, pure mitigation is not going to get you the farthest, at all.

Get a correct amount of ev, Acro and phase accro, eventually Atziri's steps, and then run coil + arctic and keep a basalt, go for EC if you want too.

Armour does shit against those things that would one shot you anyway unless that is the one focus of your build, what works in those cases is fortify + EC, basically.
The life pool if you stay in the ranger area only is a problem, but a melee character could easily spend half of the point in the left part of the tree.

Going pure mitigation as a melee is just stupid imho, it will get you killed, that's it.
As much as full armor without any other form of mitigation will get you killed too.


If Sid has the time to push to red map with this char, he will prove you wrong without a doubt.

have i done red maps with my hybrid life/ES melee guy? yes i have: corrupted colosseum, estuary, plaza and excavation. these were the maps i had drop and they were no problem. ele buffed Uber Izaro is no problem whatsoever.

when you think 'hybrid' you probably think 3k hp 2k es. my character has 4.5k hp and 5k es. it is buffer large enough to rival 'left side of the tree tanks'. and given how well it works it is the way GGG envisioned shadow to be played.


my 2h EV melee (cleave) is doing fine, doing chain farm legacy t6-9 with 4k hp at lvl 76. will farm up till 85 and redo the gear as i wear some junk pieces and start doing normal maps as these are just xp farm. that should get me to 5.5k, 6EC, ~60% dodge/spelldodge, basalt+granite + knockback that works EXTREMELY well as a defensive mechanic so far

ill record some stuff and post it here around lvl 85



you claim Ondar's and Acro nerfs made stuff unplayable. and i will say 'boooollooooocks'
if that is true - then your character simply played the lottery and won. because both these 'changes' did NOTHING in the mitigation area. only avoidance.

playing PURE anything in this game is stupidity (CI + Instant leech is extreme outlier and should be ignored because i do not think it will last more than 2 months from now). stuff should be mixed and it works rather well when done correctly

Eh i dont think theres much wrong with the raider tree really. The only big discrepancy i see between the tree is the fact that one has permanent phasing, but the other doesnt have permanent onslaught.

Both of those branches are highly competitive but where the Onslaught side falls short is the fact that youre forced into running a Rotgut for Onslaught, theres nothing in the game that grants onslaught without a kill except for Kongors, which you cant use in any fashion without having a shit build while playing a ranger.

While everyone isnt playing Frenzy, Raider screams play Frenzy. Of course, you dont have to but its very efficient to play it that way, though its probably bad game design to have an entire ascendancy based on a single skill.

I think that if they made the Onslaught have sustainable uptime it would be equally competitive with the Phasing side. That would give the clear choice of wanting more defense or more offense (while both segments grant offense and defense the phasing side is clearly much more defensive).

While block is nerfed, theres no need for it. Enfeeble/Blind make up for Block entirely. My trickster went Shade Form with only Blind and Grace, it honestly felt just as good as having Ondars, because it is. In the case of Raider you actually get more than old Ondars, you negate the attack side and get 5% more, and then you get 15% more for projectiles as well. Its incredibly good, however highly competitive with the dodge side.

I believe my Trickster was 20k Evasion (Probably not needed, with Grace on, Enfeeble would probably be better), with 45% Attack Dodge and 51% spell Dodge with Arrow Dancing and Blind. You can do similar with Raider you just lose out on a small bit of Dodge but you get more Projectile and Attack evasion.

Honestly, they just need to buff life nodes in general, theyre probably going to. Life has been extremely hard to get on the right side for quite some time now, life in general is not in the best shape soo that just exacerbates evasions issue.

All in all, im liking my Raider soo far, im thinking my damage will be plenty high enough to the point where i can probably just drop hatred and run grace or something else instead for more defense.

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Fruz wrote:

No, pure mitigation is not going to get you the farthest, at all.

Get a correct amount of ev, Acro and phase accro, eventually Atziri's steps, and then run coil + arctic and keep a basalt, go for EC if you want too.

Armour does shit against those things that would one shot you anyway unless that is the one focus of your build, what works in those cases is fortify + EC, basically.
The life pool if you stay in the ranger area only is a problem, but a melee character could easily spend half of the point in the left part of the tree.

Going pure mitigation as a melee is just stupid imho, it will get you killed, that's it.
As much as full armor without any other form of mitigation will get you killed too.


If Sid has the time to push to red map with this char, he will prove you wrong without a doubt.

Dude, you are not reading well - obviously pure damage avoidance is not going to work TODAY (unless you have ridiculous damage). My whole point is that it USED TO WORK before the nerfs, and was very reliable.


Out of the list I have pointed out the only map Sid is claiming to have done is Colosseum.


If all we are doing is just farming T10s all day then there is nothing to discuss here. Because many builds are viable on T10s. Even a level 75 Witch that I play naked with no chest or shield can do T10s.


Sid's "hybrid" character with HP and ES is just stacking hit points. He is already converging to one of the 3 builds I pointed out previously which is the high hit point (CI) build with max blocks.

Basalt, Blind, Vaal Grace, Fortify, AA, whatever man - a CI build can add those as well and will have access to Alchemist Witch nodes. An AR build can add all those as well and will naturally have higher life and better mitigation.

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you claim Ondar's and Acro nerfs made stuff unplayable. and i will say 'boooollooooocks'
if that is true - then your character simply played the lottery and won. because both these 'changes' did NOTHING in the mitigation area. only avoidance.

Mmm, actually no it wasn't a lottery, in fact it was very reliable if you understood the game.

Before the nerfs my EV melee character could do all the content in the game. I was the first EV melee build to do Uber Atziri, and also the first EV melee to do Vaal Temple bosses. I wasn't hybrid either, I was using pure damage avoidance.

So going pure damage avoidance WAS viable. And going EV melee used to be the only build that could get the highest damage avoidance in the game.

This whole thread is about Raider improvements.

If EV melee is not supposed to be viable in this game, and if Raider has nothing to do with EV melee: then fine, ignore everything I said.


But if Raider was supposed to help EV melee then obviously it failed simply because:
- it cannot remove block penalty on Acro
- one path needs Onslaught which is hard to maintain


Y'all can argue as much as you want that Raider and EV melee is 'fine", at the end of the day PoE players are not stupid.

They see how retarded some of these bosses are. And then they look at how bad EV melee is right now, and it's a simple logical choice to play many other builds that are, frankly, no-brainers, compared to whatever EV melee you want to do, hybrid or not

The bosses damage have been skyrocketing recently yeah .. I'm not talking about the last tiers because I do not know them, but even the lower red tiers ...

So yeah, it screwed melees in general, not just evasion, armour too got screwed imho.
Only left sided ( tree wise obv ) characters have it easier to stack life.
Just the fact that dext does not provide buffer and Str does is a thing that matters.

So in the end, I think that the problem isn't on evasion, it's on melee in general.
Now GGG is taking the direction where they seem to want us to layer our defense more than in the past because we need to soak up more damage, that fucks pure armour and pure evasion builds ( maybe god tier gear with heavy investment can survive, maybe, evasion only will eventually die against some bosses ).

So the thing is like ... it's not just evasion imho, it's melee in general.