Evasion/Dodge/Raider improvements

CI to Acro yes, this is what I said at the end of my previous message :p.

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Grzybas2 wrote:

-Add "whatever the name" to RAIDER ascendancy - maybe add it to Avatar of Veil as a "while phasing" mechanic so it goes "20% less Damage taken while phasing if you have not been Hit Recently"
RAIDER lacks a Unique stat/mechanic that could adress this.

Bahahaha, right after making my own thread suggesting a very similar Keystone mechanic I looked at this thread and saw your suggestion... I believe I've been ninja'd. (Although my suggestion is a bit different mechanically).

Most of the problems with evasion come from what i call the "big hit" meta. Currently the main things that kill you tend to be a boss/unique monster slamming you for a large amount of damage in a small amount of time, such as izaro/malachai slam or atziri flameblast. if you take a hit from one of these and dont have a large effective health pool you die. If you take the hit with a large enough health pool, you quickly sustain back to full or retreat while you recover. CI can generate a massive pool to absorb this one off damage. Armor directly reduces the incoming damage, effectively amplifying how much health you do have. Evasion, on the other hand, simply has a chance to negate it entirely. But because this is chance based it is unreliable. You see the hit coming and simply have no idea if it will kill you or not. At some point, you are going to be hit, and without the giant health pool or direct mitigation you die.
Block functions in a very similar manner, but is generally located in higher health areas of the tree than dodge and evasion, and can be stacked on top of mitigation from armor (though it usually takes a lot of investment to really pull it off)

Essentially, both the other primary defenses build up a high damage threshold before you die. Evasion does not build this threshold in an effective or predictable way. So it has difficulty competing in an environment where single hits from tough opponents can take huge chunks of health.

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sagiterios wrote:

Armor directly reduces the incoming damage, effectively amplifying how much health you do have.

Only for maybe 90%+ of builds, armour does basically nothing against those big hits, you need to invest a real lot into it for it to mean something in this case, and to use granite.

What makes evasion feel squishy is the amount of physical spells that always get added to the game ....

For Acrobatics to be on pair with CI it would have to grant 100% chance to dodge physical hits...
Which we know will never happen.

Evasion/dodge will remain shitty because one time you wont be lucky and you will die to average hit.

They should remove armour penalty from acro..
At least we could go then IR + Acro to mitigate shitty downside

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eragon1111 wrote:

For Acrobatics to be on pair with CI it would have to grant 100% chance to dodge physical hits...
Which we know will never happen.

Evasion/dodge will remain shitty because one time you wont be lucky and you will die to average hit.

They should remove armour penalty from acro..
At least we could go then IR + Acro to mitigate shitty downside

If you die to average hit than there is something that you completely misunderstood in how much buffer you need.
The first part of is complete nonsense by the way.

Removing the armour penalty would be freaking stupid, just get Acro with Iron reflexes then ....

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Shppy wrote:

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Grzybas2 wrote:

-Add "whatever the name" to RAIDER ascendancy - maybe add it to Avatar of Veil as a "while phasing" mechanic so it goes "20% less Damage taken while phasing if you have not been Hit Recently"
RAIDER lacks a Unique stat/mechanic that could adress this.

Bahahaha, right after making my own thread suggesting a very similar Keystone mechanic I looked at this thread and saw your suggestion... I believe I've been ninja'd. (Although my suggestion is a bit different mechanically).

You just have to trust me that i didnt see your thread.

Btw guys im not arguing that CI should be nerfed or evasion / armor be buffed to the level of CI but i see that we all agree that evasion could use some love even a slight buff is welcomed.

The way i see it , you cant rely on evasion/dodge for big hits cause that 1 time you get hit you will die so you either get out of the way ( like you should and every1 should ) or you die unless you stack another layer of defenses like endurance charges , kintsugi , fortify , enfeeble etc. And since endurance charges dont do shit for elemental/chaos hits , fortify you should have anyway and its not like its enough i proposed kintsugi's effect to be available somewhere else.

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Grzybas2 wrote:

The way i see it , you cant rely on evasion/dodge for big hits cause that 1 time you get hit you will die so you either get out of the way ( like you should and every1 should ) or you die unless you stack another layer of defenses like endurance charges , kintsugi , fortify , enfeeble etc. And since endurance charges dont do shit for elemental/chaos hits , fortify you should have anyway and its not like its enough i proposed kintsugi's effect to be available somewhere else.

Here we go again.


In most cases anyway, armour is useless against those hits.
The problem is life vs ES.
What fucks evasion based characters is physical spells, that's it.

Fortify, Basalt and endurance charges isn't, but that is not related to evasion ( endurance charges are easier to acquire on the left part of the tree, I'll give you that ).

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Fortify, Basalt and endurance charges isn't, but that is not related to evasion ( endurance charges are easier to acquire on the left part of the tree, I'll give you that ).

Not only endurance charges but keep in mind all that strenght is giving you life. So basicly i hope you can agree with that evasion/ right side of tree builds(assuming similar %life nodes taken etc.) have the lowest Effective health pool and therefore things that wouldnt kill other builds can 1 shot evasion builds if you dont roll your rng (acro/phase acro) or in some cases (volatile's) you can't do shit if you don't notice it in time. Ofc armor builds die to volatiles aswell but higher health helps a lot.

Moreover to maybe clear something up - im not saying Armor builds are fine , so its not like im arguing evasion is shit and armor and CI are OP OP. I just suggested a bit of help for evasion and maybe some1 else can suggest solutions for armor. For example if you had a keystone converting 10% of elemental dmg taken to physical that would help armor builds survive voletiles etc. But this thread is focused on evasion and i dont want to reduce the discussion to "buff life , cause CI is OP".

There could be other life nodes in that area, I definitely agree with that, but that's it basically.

This is why it all ends to the problem of life vs energy shield, essentially.
Not just CI, ES, and the balance of strong hits taking crazy ES buffers in consideration.