Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Turtledove wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

It is a different genre, I've said this a million times before, a few traps here and there do not make it trap gameplay. It is still arpg gameplay with some traps in it. When you have screens full of traps then the gameplay is trap gameplay not arpg gameplay. This is a different genre, more like mario or frogger.

Can you link the paragraph in the International Association of Video Games bylaws that defines aRPG and sets a limit on the number of traps allowed to qualify for the genre?

Your request is ridiculous and irrelevant. What is relevant is that trap gameplay is boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun to me. When you have screens full of traps in the labyrinth then that is trap gameplay. Does everyone feel this way? Apparently not, but, a significant number of people do.

if you don't have an authoritive definition of what defines a genre and what invalidates it, then don't say things don't belong in the genre. Say you don't like something. but don't act like an authority on what belongs in somebody else's design. That's like telling Leonardo Da Vinci that his Mona Lisa painting should be changed because he painted it wrong.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Exactly. This is why definitions of safety exclude any form of permanency, because youre never truly safe, youre presently safe.

Im safe in my house, that doesnt mean a meteor from space couldnt come crashing down and kill me, or a plane randomly falling from the sky, etc.

This argument is flawed again. Your house is safe from any common danger. A meteor is not a common danger. If we take dangers into account that are unlikely like your meteor, then there are no safe spaces at all in the lab. Because I could stay in the sentry drone row, dodge the drones, but I get hit by random ice spell from an enemy out of screen, freeze for a millisecond and die to the trap. That's even more likely to happen then your meteor example. By that definition, my argument that there are trap sequences without safe spaces, is even more right then before.

No, its not lmao.

"If i get hit by a spell off screen and get frozen for a millisecond and die to the trap".

Except that wont happen because trapped areas like those have no monsters in them, you even said that yourself in a previous post. "The games about killing monsters, blah blah blah, not about going into an area with purely traps" something of that sort.

We both know that monsters from side areas can indeed randomly walk into trap areas, but it's not like the monsters are all over the place in trap sequence areas. Like I said: These are the random things that can happen (even more likely then your meteor example). Good that you just agreed with me that there are no safe spaces in the lab, thanks for your understanding. Also: Dont forget to react on the definition of safe space you demanded so badly. I took your advice and searched for the definition of safe and space.

But I'm a kind person and quote it, so you dont have to go back a page:

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Look up the definition of Safe, then look up the definition of Place. Then you have your answer. Its not rocket science or like you have to decipher some sort of hidden code.

Ok, like I said: I go along with your definition thing:

Definition of "Safe":

"secure from liability to harm, injury, danger, or risk"

Definition of "Place":

"a particular portion of space, whether of definite or indefinite extent"

Now lets merge these 2 together...

Definition of "Safe Space":

"A particular portion of space, wether of definite or indefinite extent, which is secure from liability to harm, injury, danger, or risk"

Used this as source for definitions: http://www.dictionary.com/

^Lmao the classic delusional, "you just agreed with me because i can no longer argue against anything youve said" post.

"PoE and other aRPGs are all about killing monsters. Implementing obstacles like traps while doing that is perfectly ok! These traps are avoidable, but makes positioning harder. If you dodge an enemy attack, you might run into a trap if you are not careful. The difference is however, that in PoE there are sequences of traps that have nothing to do with killing stuff at all. Only traps, no monsters and even if there are monsters, it's mostly like 5 skeletons who randomly walked into a trap sequence. So the focus of the lab is shifted from killing monsters to dodging traps. It's a different genre, that has not much in common with your named aRPGs."



Edit - Do you understand what INDEFINITE means ? Because that applies to safety hints why safety is never permanent.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

^Lmao the classic delusional, "you just agreed with me because i can no longer argue against anything youve said" post.

"PoE and other aRPGs are all about killing monsters. Implementing obstacles like traps while doing that is perfectly ok! These traps are avoidable, but makes positioning harder. If you dodge an enemy attack, you might run into a trap if you are not careful. The difference is however, that in PoE there are sequences of traps that have nothing to do with killing stuff at all. Only traps, no monsters and even if there are monsters, it's mostly like 5 skeletons who randomly walked into a trap sequence. So the focus of the lab is shifted from killing monsters to dodging traps. It's a different genre, that has not much in common with your named aRPGs."

Good thing I wrote "and even if there are monsters, it's mostly like 5 skeletons who randomly walked into the trap sequence". So yes, I always said that this can happen. And if they happen to be cold spell casting skeletons, my example of being frozen in the trap sequence can indeed happen, like a meteor falling into your house. Damnit, no safe spaces in the lab! It really needs a rework. Thanks for pointing that out Tin_Foil_Hat. At first I thought you are against lab-haters, but now you provide strong arguments for our cause. I really appriciate your help.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Edit - Do you understand what INDEFINITE means ? Because that applies to safety hints why safety is never permanent.

You make no sense again. The definition clearly says that it needs to be SPACE (definite or not) that needs to be SAFE from any harm. It doesnt say ANYTHING about a time-limit you have mentioned before. Btw: You completely took the indefinite out of context. The definiotion talks about indefinite space and not indefinite safety...

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mark1030 wrote:

But that's a separate complaint from hating the lab. If you hate the lab, it's not because the ascendency altar is at the end of it. You wouldn't suddenly like the lab if they moved the altar out of there.

The point you're missing is that not everyone has to like it if it's optional, and it's not optional as long as Ascendancy is behind it. Move Ascendancy and you leave Lab alone. That way people who do like it can have it. People who don't can ignore it like they do most other content they dislike. For example, I usually skip the hedge maze garden area of Act 3, because I don't care about those quest rewards and I don't like the map layout. It doesn't hurt anyone, and I'm sure some people love that area. That's what we're asking for with Lab.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

It is a different genre, I've said this a million times before, a few traps here and there do not make it trap gameplay. It is still arpg gameplay with some traps in it. When you have screens full of traps then the gameplay is trap gameplay not arpg gameplay. This is a different genre, more like mario or frogger.

We are individuals and have every right to our opinion no matter what you say or think. When a game we love adds content that is horrible, tedious, irritating, and not fun then we have every right to come here to the Feedback and Suggestions forum and share our opinion no matter what you say or think.

Watch out people im clearly lying about everything even though you can go through Turtles post history, see that its full of complaints and you can even see in this one he directly disregards the games mentioned as "its a different genre".

Turtle, youre literally just trolling at this point. All you do is paradoxically argue and bring the entire argument full circle repeatedly with your comments. Literally goes no where when arguing with you, you intentionally bring the argument full circle, like a dog chasing its own tail.

PoE is an arpg. Labyrinth trap gameplay is a different genre. You do lie, you have lied continually.

Let's look at the rest of my statement, "You are lying when you say we have never played a platformer. I'm probably older than you and suspect that I have played more games than you have since, I'm 64 years old and have been gaming since before Pong. You really need to have more respect for the truth. Truth is reality and when one lies so much then it shows a weak grasp on reality. Please stop lying."

The statement that I've never played a platformer is a very stupid lie. You calling me a kid is an implicit lie. I'm 64 years old. You saying that I "literally complain for a living" is another baldfaced lie. You just can't seem to stop.

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mark1030 wrote:

if you don't have an authoritive definition of what defines a genre and what invalidates it, then don't say things don't belong in the genre. Say you don't like something. but don't act like an authority on what belongs in somebody else's design. That's like telling Leonardo Da Vinci that his Mona Lisa painting should be changed because he painted it wrong.

If you lack the experience to understand what generally defines a genre, don't ask for a definition.

(See how straw man gets nobody anywhere?)

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Turtledove wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

It is a different genre, I've said this a million times before, a few traps here and there do not make it trap gameplay. It is still arpg gameplay with some traps in it. When you have screens full of traps then the gameplay is trap gameplay not arpg gameplay. This is a different genre, more like mario or frogger.

We are individuals and have every right to our opinion no matter what you say or think. When a game we love adds content that is horrible, tedious, irritating, and not fun then we have every right to come here to the Feedback and Suggestions forum and share our opinion no matter what you say or think.

Watch out people im clearly lying about everything even though you can go through Turtles post history, see that its full of complaints and you can even see in this one he directly disregards the games mentioned as "its a different genre".

Turtle, youre literally just trolling at this point. All you do is paradoxically argue and bring the entire argument full circle repeatedly with your comments. Literally goes no where when arguing with you, you intentionally bring the argument full circle, like a dog chasing its own tail.

PoE is an arpg. Labyrinth trap gameplay is a different genre. You do lie, you have lied continually.

Let's look at the rest of my statement, "You are lying when you say we have never played a platformer. I'm probably older than you and suspect that I have played more games than you have since, I'm 64 years old and have been gaming since before Pong. You really need to have more respect for the truth. Truth is reality and when one lies so much then it shows a weak grasp on reality. Please stop lying."

The statement that I've never played a platformer is a very stupid lie. You calling me a kid is an implicit lie. I'm 64 years old. You saying that I "literally complain for a living" is another boldfaced lie. You just can't seem to stop.

Soo youre 64 years old and you still havent played a platformer which is why you continually make the comparison.

No, its not a lie at all lmao.

"Labyrinth trap gameplay is a different genre!"

I literally mentioned torchlight 2 and diablo and you said theyre a different genre because i said they have traps in them. TRAPS MAKE ARPGS, ARPG, The fucking GOAT of ARPGS had them, why the fuck do you still insist that it "isnt the genre".

Do i have to fucking buy you a platformer soo you can actually understand the difference because the comparison is completely off when you compare any platformers to the labyrinth. ESPECIALLY FROGGER.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

if you don't have an authoritive definition of what defines a genre and what invalidates it, then don't say things don't belong in the genre. Say you don't like something. but don't act like an authority on what belongs in somebody else's design. That's like telling Leonardo Da Vinci that his Mona Lisa painting should be changed because he painted it wrong.

If you lack the experience to understand what generally defines a genre, don't ask for a definition.

(See how straw man gets nobody anywhere?)

In that case, the argument is settled. It's a proven fact that there are traps in other games of this genre. Therefore traps are allowed in this genre. So nobody should say they don't belong or that only a certain amount of them are allowed.

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mark1030 wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

if you don't have an authoritive definition of what defines a genre and what invalidates it, then don't say things don't belong in the genre. Say you don't like something. but don't act like an authority on what belongs in somebody else's design. That's like telling Leonardo Da Vinci that his Mona Lisa painting should be changed because he painted it wrong.

If you lack the experience to understand what generally defines a genre, don't ask for a definition.

(See how straw man gets nobody anywhere?)

In that case, the argument is settled. It's a proven fact that there are traps in other games of this genre. Therefore traps are allowed in this genre. So nobody should say they don't belong or that only a certain amount of them are allowed.

And I already explained why traps in PoE are different from traps in D2 and T2. It's the way they are deployed. The focus shouldn't be on dodging traps, it should be on killing monsters, while the traps are scattered and only make bad positioning while fighting the monsters punishing. Furthermore, you should be able to completely go around traps if you wish so, which is not always possible in poe.

Sometimes small differences can change a genre completely. The moment the focus of the gameplay shifts it also changes the genre. The focus of the lab is clearly dodging traps and not killing monsters, so it is justified to say that the lab has it's own genre. That's not a bad thing, it just shouldn't be forced on the players.