End game changes mega discussion thread/questionnare.
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What could they change about challenge leagues that would make you more enthusiastic about participation and/or retention?
Is end game crafting through alt > regal or chaos spam satisfying? Is master crafting satisfying? How does crafting compare to playing in maps and trying to find an item similar to the one you're trying to craft? Or trading for it? For me these are sort of tied. I can see a book forming on the subject. Lets try and tldr followed by a spoiler and god help anyone who ventures in there, you were warned. tldr: I think we need less burning of short term goals and more currency to give us long term goals in the form of crafting. Its a game about customization, progression, and in attempting to make the game feel more rewarding I think weve ended up shortcutting short term progression while completely ignoring how completely stonewalled long term gear progression can be outside of standard league through any means other than simply buying items from xyz which is a very hollow and unappealing way of obtaining items for many people. I would buff certain orb drop rates and switch all exalt master costs to varying amounts of regals as appropriate. for the why the what and the wut, great wall of text for enthusiasts only...
Spoiler
Ok, Im going to try and explain what I think current crafting looks like, what it costs, how much I think we should be able to craft and what I think needs to change to get to that. Im also going to try and explain why I think it would be a good thing. This is a happy post, but you asked how currency makes me feel, so theres an AGHHHHHHH bit in the middle spoilered where we deal with that and keep it walled off from the rest of what Im saying. Im gonna talk about buffing crafting but I want to stress at the start that there needs to be limits. I dont want to see variance on rare items lowered and I dont want to see high end rare gear trivialized in league environments. Thats what too far looks like and its rly important we dont go too far. I dont want eternals back, i think without them its virtually impossible to make perfect rares and I see it as essential to the integrity of the item system that perfect rares remain that way. Rares should be varied, interesting, imperfect things. I love high variance rng. In this post Im going to talk about orb drop rates being too low. Lets look at fusing, 1200 av for a 6L, surely upping the chance of a 6L is the same as upping the drop rates of fuse? No, esp not when ur talking about rarity of rare item mods. In my opinion, where possible, keep the extremely high rng and give more spins of the wheel. When I say we dont have enough orbs thats what I mean, not 'theres an issue and Id be happy again if you made flaring rly common'. I think its more fun when the rng is wild, a lot of orbs are getting used, and theres a level of stuff thats virtually impossible to ever achieve but its technically possible this next orb or drop could hit exactly that, in theory. but it never actually happens. How does using orbs make me feel?
Spoiler
the orb system is amazing, its incredibly fun to use the orbs but becomes nightmarish when you realise the cost. We just dont get enough currency, no where near enough and it means that inevitably you spend 10, 20, 100 exalts crafting something, and the likelyhood is you fail. You then grind for a few days, find an exalt, realise its the first youve found in 4 weeks, then you remember the 100 stack you just saw go up in smoke, and then basically you quit the game and vow never to come back because its a complete waste of time. You vendor a maps worth of rares, get 5 alterations, then you remember the 450 alts u just spent to roll 1 seething staunching flask and you want to quit the game. You turn in 20 chaos recipes its taken you 3 days to save up the pieces for, and then you remember youve spent 100 chaos on maps in the last 3 hours and that sense of how completely worthless playing this game and picking up currency is kicks in, how its impossible to play this game unless you are trading all day every day and that makes you angry, irritable, wastes your time, you hate it, you hate ppl, these fucking ppl who keep messaging you for trades endlessly cant they just fuck off and die.... So yeah its fun to use currency for a moment, and then you want to kill yourself. See how the attitude of that paragraph changes towards the end? Thats how currency drop rates and what feels like forced mass trading with ppl makes me feel all the time.
Podcast before last ziz was talking about the 300-700 chaos per day he was having to trade for to roll maps and put a zana mod on them... I wonder why so many endgame players stay in standard where 3 years of botting and rmt has flooded the economy with so many orbs that the game actually functions for high level players who arnt in the 0.1% of high level players in their league? Now the game hasnt been updated for them in forever, their high end crafting has been taken away with no increase in drop rates to let them make things with the new systems, so theyre quitting, on mass, standard is falling apart because the game doesnt function in a way that gives you anything to do in terms of long term progression and fun unless you are trading your way into at least 100 other peoples drops, which is enough to make a lot of us very hostile. Look at zeno etc on the last podcast, they struggle to even say exactly what needs changed with trade, they just know that they feel they have to trade a fuck load and the result is they are RAGING angry with the game where trade is involved. It burns ppl out HAVING to make many trades per hour every hour to get by, the little niggles start to become tantrum inducing, this guy took 1.4 minutes to accept my party invite? BURN THE ENTIRE WORLD I HATE THIS GAME I HATE EVERYONE ARGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH. It doesnt stress you out having to buy a shavs, having to buy a rats nest, its 1 thing you buy once in a league, get it, done. What stresses you out is being forced to make 30 trades a day just to have enough currency to feel like its worth logging in again tomorrow, that leaves you permanently on the edge of snapping if anything about the next trade you have to make snags. The price is 3c and this guy gives me 1c, 2 fusing and 3 alchs? FUCK TRADE IN THIS GAME, JUST GIVE ME AN AUCTION HOUSE IM DONE WITH THIS SHIT, FUCK IT ALL I DONT EVEN CARE ANY MORE FFUUAGHHHHHHH!!!!! This is what happens, I get exactly the same way, I see other people everywhere feeling like this. Orbs themselves are very fun when you detach from the reality of how many you find and how many other peoples you need to acquire, orbs are an amazing system and I love them. what can we do with crafting and what does it cost? Well Im going to refer to a few crafting methods I am aware of, maybe theres stuff I dont know about, but this is what Im looking at as crafting right now for anyone who doesnt know what I mean by suffix stripping etc... Eternal Exalting
Spoiler
ppl like ventor made these things by just brute force eternal exalting. Every time you hit a mod you get as many attempts at hitting the next one as you can afford without ever bricking the item. It is my opinion that the quick fix credit card warrior rmters in standard were mirroring these things, had unlimited budged, and the eternal crafters could make 100x more currency than any other legit players in mirror fees. This let them have unlimited currency to brute force perfect items and charge 50, 100+ exalt mirror fees to make that profitable, which warped the economy so much that it meant if you didnt make something perfect that was profitable it was questionable for you to craft at all. In my opinion this should never come back. Some ppl still have eternals but this, looking forward, doesnt exist any more. Good imo, items like this shouldnt exist, and if we could craft our own items Id be up for pushing these existing items down the scales through more increases in mod tiers. Chaos Spam
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its basically just force spawning rares, its extremely random, but it has its place esp combined with other methods I will describe. 99 out of 100 times chaos spam is a terrible idea where gear is concerned given the rarity of the orb.
Building an item from scratch
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alt spam an item for 2 good mods, regal for a good mod, and if you hit the regal, then you must exalt it twice and hit 2 mods in a row. This takes you to 5 mods then you master the 6th. so regal + 2ex, you have to spawn 3 mods in a row, if any of them brick the item is fucked basically. Above is an example, I transmute wands in maps to mitigate the alting cost, hit % phys and crit with the transmute, aps with the regal. now you can use a master mod to block a mod, or in this case multiple mods, exalted 1-2 flat phys, rekt, start again. This is a brutal crafting method, it has its place on weapons, rings etc, you cna make anything this way but its so expensive and random that I feel theres better methods for a lot of items. You cna combine this with the stripping method ill talk about below, this will let you hit up to 2 bad mods, usually suffixes, one of them has to be from the alt/aug process obviously. You can strip these off but you are still required to hit 2 desired prefixes within the regal and 2 exalts, if either fail the entire item is destroyed. You can transmute 1000 wands and not hit what i hit there, as an example of how random this is at every stage. Stripping
Spoiler
   stripping like this basically lets you edit the prefixes or suffixes of the item, giving you potentially unlimited attempts to try and hit 2 exalts in a row leaving space for the 3rd via bench. The prefixes cannot be changed costs 2 exalts each time. This is often the cheapest way to craft a chest like the one above. But what makes that chest gg is the 6L and the 3 prefixes first and foremost, and this crafting method provided neither of these. You have to start with an item you either found, traded for, chaos spammed or crafted from scratch. What I got was turning an item with 1 resist into an item with 3, thats about the scope of this sort of thing. That chest took about 9 exalts to get from start to finish including the bench mod costs for prefixes cannot be changed. I could see it taking twice that much or half, depending on luck. This does not including getting the chest with 3 gg prefixes or 6 linking it. T1 max res is 48%, t1 core stat around 55? I was aiming for 30%+ resists or 30+ core stat, a little over half way, the next tier up from the bench basically. To go for 2x t1, im guessing 100s of exalts, but ur always locked into a bench as the last or basically yoloing with a vast probability of fucking your item forever. Now a chest is the easiest item to roll, by far. Me and my guild have played with other items, shields, 2nd easiest item in the game to roll imo. This took me 11ex I think to edit the suffixes with the same 30+ goal. I feel like I got a little lucky, hard to say. Would be harder on a caster shield. hat, by my estimate probably the 4th easiest slot to roll ur suffixes on after chest, shield and boots. So this one took me and a friend over 100 exalts to not hit my 30+ goal for the 2 suffixes... right... Be clear, we are talking about starting with a 490es hat that had 2 resists and a bricked rarity suffix and rerolling that hat for the extra resist got to what you see now for over 100 exalts. Ive never tried stripping and exalting any slot harder than a hat, why the hell would I even humor the idea I could ever do that? Probably in the 0.1% in terms of hours played and in terms of wealth I have but simply editing the suffixes on a weapon or a ring is probably going to cost 10 to 100x more than I could ever hope to put towards such a venture even in standard after 3 years of acquiring stuff, its that fucking stupid. I wouldnt even roll a hat again for 2 suffixes, ever. Expect some of the hardest slots to cost at least 10x more than a hat. So bringing this together in practice in a league looks like this: If you want me to play for 3 months then Im going to need to make 3 really dedicated characters, thats 1 per month. So lets look at that, say I want to edit the suffixes on a shield, chest and hat, looking at it so far Im gonna need about 130ex to fail to get the 30%+ on all but we will get close. This is editing the suffixes, outside of this cost I need to get a 1200ev+400es shield, a 490es hat and a 1400ev+500es chest, they all need to have 1 free suffix and I need to 6L the chest. Just to edit the resists, that part alone, 130ex. Say I also want to make a good ring or amulet from scratch or by stripping, add another 100 to 200 exalts. Is that too greedy? not the exalt amount, what Im getting from that crafting? The actual power added by what I described is pretty meaningless in the face of some power shifts weve seen. It means Im ele weakness capped without using that ring swap I was using before and I saved 1 core stat passive... thats it, thats all it means.... k. How dare players ask for long term goals like that? Meanwhile 80 chaos buys you an ilvl100 6L chest div card set and heres the fatman with ur free shavs gg have a nice day? Da fuk? this is where I feel crafting, league retention and really the direction of loot in this game come together for me. Let me describe a situation we used to find in leagues... Theres a cap on the rare gear you can realistically find. Generally a 220-280 pdps 1h weapon for example, you can play 10 hours a day for a year and never find better. This level of gear can only be realistically bettered by crafting or by trading for a 1 in a million drop from someone else. So a month, maybe 6 weeks into the league this "best u can find" level of gear saturated in the market, and so did all the uniques outside of the very top tier. So this leaves trade and crafting as the only 2 options for gear progression, trade is empty and boring, crafting impossible. So... well I might as well go back to standard where theres rmt flooding the market with so much currency that i can sort of craft a few things here and there and I can actually afford to roll maps properly and enjoy myself. Rip league. Now what happens is they accelerated the unique drops so much, give away 5L, 6L cards and prophecies etc. The better tiers of uniques are the same power level as the best you can find rares and replace the need for them. So now after 1 week that saturation point hits and theres nothing left to play for. A binos, farm for 10k hours over 3 years and the best rare physical crit dagger youre likely to find will be maybe be as powerful as a binos, maybe. Cost you what on average? 100ex? more maybe to craft a rare weapon that good. Was worth 4ex... ok well maybe if I find 25 of them.... no wait only joking, its worth 3 chaos because theres a prophecy for it. Errrr... ok, you realise it still costs 100ex or more to craft that right? now if I find a bino in the wild, really rare drop, hype? No, its worth nothing. Crafting was already invalid due to the rarity of orbs vs rarity of that dagger, now its 1000x more extra invalidated and every rare i find is invalidated and not only that, even finding the unique itself has now been invalidated, i cant even find any worth in that happening now. Anyone whos got 100 hours spare can go to prophecy and get a council bow, its there go take it. How many exalts to craft a rare bow of the same power? Can it even be done without eternals? I dunno, give me 300 exalts, Ill have a go, Ill let you know if I need another 300 when I run out. So putting that bow in the game is like giving me 300+ exalts for going and playing 100 hours in prophecy. So why am i finding 1 exalt in that 100 hours? What exactly is being protected in terms of power creep here? I dont get it, at all, I got a council bow tho so thanks for that I guess? I can stop crafting harbingers, well, forever now right? Ok.... nice player retention concept. I used to say the game felt unrewarding, and what they did was take the little progression that existed and cut it down from a 6 week thing to a 1 week thing to try and make the game more rewarding. Its done the exact opposite for me. Div cards for linked chests, unique giveaway leagues, amazaing crafting system no one can afford to use, total cancer that destroys this games hold on me in leagues. chris talked about mundane damage dealers wearing all rares and then exotic builds using uniques. Have you guys looked at the game in this regard? Because what ur making is a game more like diablo 3 where people do cookie cutter builds using the handout cookie cutter uniques that you give them for free and that is your mundane builds. You dont allow anyone to make rare gear, people dont even understand rare gear. You have to be a 1 in 1,000 player to be able to really craft rare gear in a league than can even compete with the free uniques you are handing out on the door. Exotic builds use only rares because a good rare item is an exotic thing in a game that restricts crafting almost completely and then hands you out uniques that are as good as anything you could have crafted or found anyway. this is a game about customizing your character, so end of week 2 you got ur shavs, end of the line for chests, and u got ur veil, end of the line for hats, and ur rainbows standing in for the skyforths ur saving to simply buy off a website (how exciting zzzz....), consuming/battery/doryanis/divinarius.... all these things are as destructive to gear progression as old school eternal exalted mirrored gear right? with me on that? These slots are DONE forever in a way that it is virtually impossible for a rare item to be without eternals. No individuality, no thought gone into it all beyond read build guide by cookie cutter uniques done. Welcome to the mundane. D3 is a game where you turn up, over a week get given every cookie cutter unique then the game dies. So is this game atm because youre giving away chase stuff that is a dead end to gear progression like uniques and guaranteed links while completely cutting off 99.99% of your players from being able to continually craft and improve rare gear over time using this amazing currency system that provides an environment where no matter how much you craft you will probably never hit anything 'perfect', ever, so you can always try again for that little bit better over and over. Theres no over and over with a shavs, u grind ur pathetic 2ex or whatever it is, enough to fail to get a 15%+ evasion roll on a ring craft, go to xyz and buy your shavs off the shelf, done, and when uve done this to all ur slots so is the league. X unique is balanced because you can craft better! Who can craft better? So what if you buff exalts a lot and ppl can craft a little, those 0.001%ers are going to go insane right? They will power through for the t1s on stripping etc? Ya Im sure they will. So lets look at that, rather than spending 10ex to get 2x 30% resists on the chest he spends 200ex to get dual 48% res... gross, so what did he gain? Like 30% resist? Its 1 bloody bench level suffix worth of extra resist, who cares? Who actually cares? It doesnt mean ANYTHING in power creep terms it just means something to him and gave him something to spend 10 hours a day for 2 weeks working towards. Of course there would be an overall power creep in increasing crafting, no doubt, but if it gives players something to do, something to keep playing for then why not? Just jack up monster life again. Are they going to make a better chest than coil? a better bow than reach? Doubt it. To craft you need to understand items and builds. Its a knowledge gate and encourages people to get their head around the systems, I like that. The stripping crafting requires an item to start with, this brings value to finding items, chaos spamming, crafting from scratch and trading. It ties in the other means of item generation and restricts the ability to perfect an item, both of these things are really healthy imo compared to the eternal situation that just sidestepped everything and invalidated it for high end gear acquisition. It also means noobs will have currency amounts that have real utility value to high end players who have the know how to make good items, not hey mr i heard u just wasted 100ex failing to craft 2 resists on a hat, can you sell me your ring for 1 chaos please?.... and then he puts 2 fusing in the trade window, 2 fusing, thats not even equiv of a chaos right now, this fucking guy, RAGE MODE JUST GIVE ME AUCTION HOUSE CANT DEAL WITH THESE PPL AND THIS TRADE SYSTME FUUUUU.... Dont actually put in an auction house, Im just joking around, but I hope what Im actually trying to get at exists in all that crap i just wrote. Sry for anyone who read it all, i dont even know where to begin making that concise. What I would change?.. So In a month of a league I could pull together maybe 10-20 spare exalts to put towards crafting, from my calcs above gonna need more like 130 to 250 to craft just a little bit. So up the drop rate by 12x or something? Well I dunno if we should get that carried away. A lot of that is bench costs, so lets cut what we need in half by getting rid of those. Switch exalt costs to regals, prefixes cant be changed, it costs 2ex, switch it to 20 regals, same with multimod (it was fixed by removing hybrid, it doesnt need to be 2ex, thats insane). If you are farming high end maps you can do regal recipe, incentivise grinding and doing recipe, make me feel like 4 hours playing is worth something, that Im getting somewhere towards something worth caring about. Regals are super rare through drops anyway. That goes for every bench mod, the %es etc, 10 regals a pop. Let people use the crafting. Then buff exalt drops by 4x to start off and see how that goes. Double chaos drops imo, a bit more fusing, give slightly more alt shards for vendoring rares and thats it. Divine, Gcp, Alch, Scour, Chance, all the other stuff leave it alone, its fine. Maybe up vaal orbs or make them drop a lot more in vaaled maps, they do more harm than good and theyre fun so why not? Maybe a little buff to all orbs, I think the rest are fine but then most people are not me, nothing that fundamental should be balanced around a player who plays as much as me. Almost everything is priced at the rarity of the currency. Ppl will say things like crafted gear always has to be more expensive than buying it because blah blah, and yes in a balanced environment that would kick in. This is not. Oh hey nice gloves, probably cost about 200 exalts to craft, how much you want for them? 10 chaos. 10 chaos?!?!?! rip off bullshit, Ill give you 5 at most because thats what chaos orb rarity says I can spend on gloves. Its cutting off rare gear progression through any means other than trade, and when you trade ur pissed off because you have to trade for nothing because no one has anything. I just sold those gloves for 5 chaos, but I jumped out of a map to sell them that I spent equiv of 10 chaos to roll, and those are the best gloves Ive found in the last 40 hours of running a map that expensive every 10 minutes. And then the 1.4 minute wait for the party invite accept omg this fucking guy for a few chaos wtf HEARTATTACKMANMODE ENGAGED, RAGE NUKES PREPPED. If the guy was giving me 50 chaos for these 200 exalts to craft gloves maybe Id have a bit more patience with him, know what I mean? If he could afford that, if anyone could afford to pay more than 1% of the crafting cost for any rare item ever. If you give endgame players enough currency to craft that step beyond what they can find it gives them something to do that is addictive and engaging, esp if u tie it into doing ilv75+ recipe which supports playing and looting. I think crafting is better than looting, looting is better than trading and give aways for turning up are just an endgame item apocalypse. Why shouldnt crafting be the main way we get endgame gear? Is it not the most knowledge intensive, rng intensive, rewarding feeling method that gives the most longevity to the grind? If we could craft gear we wouldnt mind upping the mod tiers every now and then to bring down what we have, we dont need an item for life. We were so mad when u made higher tiers because we cant afford to even think about crafting new gear and we were turned into hulkmode rageman trying to trade our way into enough currency to buy mirror level gears in a market swamped by rmters who can buy more orbs in 2 minutes than we can farm in 10 years. I dont see currency being used as currency having any meaning, u find 1 chaos buy item for 1 chaos, u find 100 buy item for 100, its irrelevant outside of the utility value of the orbs. The currency value will just adapt to whatever seems right, its abstract. |
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Just to be clear about one thing. We did read your posts, Snorkie, however the problem is it covered so much and is so bloody inspired we were pretty much left speechless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CARRbErqjoc Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► | |
" It's true! I read some of it shortly after it was posted, then ventured into the spoiler (I know, I know, you warned us) and was like 'fuck this I'll read it later'. Which I will now! |
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I wish just one thing less rng and risk x reward adjusted
Ah and competitive or atleast fun pvp:) Last edited by Rakiii on Jul 18, 2016, 12:38:38 PM
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Crafting in this game is a joke you just need to many orbs to me to get anything good (i dont really trade and i mostly only pick up things i WOULD use)
I hardly ever try to craft things since i cant keep up with the cost i toss a chaos on a white high base now and again just to see But more chaos just seems to make me regret trying everytime i try to craft something good when its still junk by the time i give up I mean its not meant to be easy to get great items by crafting but when you cant even craft to try to get one maybe the drop rates are just to low Last edited by Lynerus on Jul 18, 2016, 12:42:14 PM
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The drop rates for curreny are always going to be adjusted based on trading so it doesn't wreck the economy. Bottom Line.
It is my biggest disappointment/frustration with this game. I would like to craft, and I still attempt to craft, but I have way to few orbs to even pretend I am making anything but vendorware. I get one, maybe two attempts each league to make an item that is better than a rare I found. | |
" Well, theoretically, crafting efficiency could be separated from drop rates if it's possible to adjust the weight of high tier mods for each currency type. So, you would have a higher chance to get a high tier mod by using alt orbs compared to full roll with an alch orb, and the chance would be higher yet for regals and highest for exalts. But I don't think it can be adjusted separately like that. Technically, they could just up the drop rates until it becomes affordable, but then trading will become a chore with prices expressed in hundreds or thousands of exalts or whatever. I suppose that one of the perils of currency with intrinsic value. There's a reason we moved on to basically worthless scraps of paper. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs. ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► Last edited by raics on Jul 18, 2016, 1:25:43 PM
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" For anyone who cares I both quoted the parts I wanted to address, chopped it up and reordered things slightly such that it functions as a tl:dr, and changed a [couple of words] for the sake of flow, not substance. I also proofread because Grammar Gestapo and all that - nothing personal - those changes are for my psychological health not to poke at you. So that was a pretty awesome post with a lot of new ideas and concepts and struggles that I hadn't heard before (though I'll reiterate that I don't spend time thinking or reading about crafting, so I have no idea about the objective novelty). I sincerely hope GGG read the entire original. I'll just start listing thoughts. 1) If 2.4 delivers, a lot of these criticisms can/will be addressed via a better mapping system, or entirely new end game system. I personally don't agree with buffing chaos orb drop rate - I think it's fair that players have to spam Chaos Orbs on maps - IF IT'S BECAUSE THEIR BUILD CAN'T DO MODS X, Y, AND Z. In a new map system, where you don't have to chaos your maps for 'pack size', this alone would go a long way toward not 'needing' chaos drop rates buffed. 2) Fusing drop rate could be 'buffed' as well by making items vendor for 3x the Alteration shards. You're a richy rich that doesn't have time to pick up items? Fine. But this would be a nice buff for the average player. 3) Love the idea of changing bench costs from exalt to regal - it makes so much sense (you know, b/c you can actually deterministically farm regals) and would make me at least consider crafting a piece or two in a 3 month league. Love the vaal orb suggestion and would actually go farther - 3 to 5x Vaal orb drop rate in Vaal side areas, frags in the map device, and Vaal'd maps. These are already rare, and fun to use on all kinds of things. More Vaals = more fun. (And would help anyone crazy enough to 6L a corrupted item from a div card at Vorici). 4) I think what you said about Uniques creeping up to be BiS is on point. Sure maybe not for EVERY build, but for an awful lot - too many probably. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing (some people like it) it almost necessarily dumps on crafting. 5) On player retention, 2 things. First, they said that Perandus would be a one time thing, and that wasn't the standard loot acquisition rate they wanted. In hindsight, internally, do they think they went overboard? Maybe. They also said Prophecy would be like Perandus-lite to wean people off of their free Shavs. What I'm getting at is you're judging and critiquing the crafting system at the worst possible time relative to the overall history of the game. Second, I'll refer to how I ended the OP. We shouldn't feel the need to play this game all day every day. Some of what your describing is players like us burning ourselves out in the first couple weeks of a league. Pretty much any game will start to see cracks in the walls of it's endgame if you no-life it for 25 days. 6) I really love the middle part I quoted, and will quote it again. If GGG reads nothing else, and if there is any way to condense what I've already tl;dr'd into an even smaller tl;dr, this is it:
Spoiler
Anyone whos got 100 hours spare can go to prophecy and get a council bow, its there go take it. How many exalts to craft a rare bow of the same power? Can it even be done without eternals? I dunno, give me 300 exalts, Ill have a go, Ill let you know if I need another 300 when I run out. So putting that bow in the game is like giving me 300+ exalts for going and playing 100 hours in prophecy. So why am i finding 1 exalt in that 100 hours? What exactly is being protected in terms of power creep here? I dont get it, at all, I got a council bow tho so thanks for that I guess? I can stop crafting harbingers, well, forever now right?
X unique is balanced because you can craft better! Who can craft better? I'd add on that it doesn't even take 100 hours to be able to afford a council, possibly less than 50 for the industrious, clever, and/or lucky. Last edited by innervation on Jul 18, 2016, 1:48:36 PM
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" The issue I was stating is that as long as there is trading, currency drops will be low and crafting will be a lottery unless GGG changes their core belief that top tier items are the end game. They took Eternal Orbs away because there were too many godly items being made. They are not going to up currency drops so that everyone can play, because that would just increase the rate at which godly items are made, which is antithetical to their design philosophy. Edit: For those who think RotC is broken, lets wait until 2.4 to see. Based on ZiggyD's community unique, I think a whole bunch of new bases and items may come out that render top tier gear obsolete. Last edited by FarmerTed on Jul 18, 2016, 3:01:12 PM
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" I think there's a lot wiggling room there. Eternals were scrapped because it was way too easy to create a mirror class item if you're uber rich, not because everyone and his grandma was crafting so we don't really have any solid proof they have something against more players at least dabbling in it. And for that to happen, the market cost and crafting cost have to be at least in the same ballpark, not an order of magnitude apart. Meaning that I agree that according to their design philosophy crafting should never be cheaper, so a budget-minded individual will always do shopping instead and you won't be able to earn money by crafting. However, sometimes you need that special something you can't readily buy, I just want to be able to craft it without spending fifty times the item value. That said, Vorici is probably a counterargument to that philosophy, we have a guaranteed 6L for 1500 fuses and it's significantly cheaper on average if you want to try your luck. The system doesn't reward you for doing the same with item mods, on average you end up at a loss. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► |
