End game changes mega discussion thread/questionnare.
" This is just false. Party play is VASTLY superior due to stupidly broken supports and the nature of a currency-gated endgame (encourages map pooling). If you are spamming maps, you will save WAY more currency by pooling maps / Zana costs with your party than you would save by going solo MF. GGG needs to implement a separate solo ladder in the LEAST, and hopefully some nerfs to party play as well. |
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" So there are some cool and different definitions of 'end-game' going on. I thought there might be, but if I could have anticipated what they were, I would have put them in the OP in the first place. I like that Bandit PK makes the list of end game activities lol. That's...both funny and a sad reflection on the rest of end-game. I think they do kind of extend the loop already, albeit very slowly. Maraketh items, higher level maps. It has been added, but it looks like they're milking how they add it to keep the level cap at 100. I do like some of your end game suggestions - originally I thought about making a 'compilation' style thread with links to ideas like this (there are some really good ones out there), but decided this would be more fun instead. |
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" No. So by your definition anything after normal Hillock is endgame? Not in anyone's "sense of the word" but yours. Don't forget to drink your milk 👌
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" The typical definition of end-game is either max level or close to max level. So 90 would be the point when endgame is expected. Activities for end game usually consist of massively challenging encounters, your standard "raid booses." Yes, I know, World of Warcraft terminology, hiss, recoil in disgust, etc. But y'know other games follow that model because it works and it works well. I think the closes this game has gotten to getting it right is the Council and Uber Lab. The former being a series of quests culminating in a boss fight, the latter being a gauntlet-style dungeon. On paper, these things are great end-game activities to challenge people who are looking to flex those muscles they've built up over 90-ish levels. The problem is that access to them is gated behind, shock of shocks, RNG. Because you can never just decide to take on a challenge here, no, it has to be padded behind blind, stupid luck. That's what pisses me off the most, the blatant padding. Not that it really matters to me because, again, the grind in this game is so aggravating and the leveling content so soulless that I never get to anything resembling an endgame. This is a buff™
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Update! New Q&A posted:
Q: Currently most high level players skip over 95% of the rares that drop even in the highest map tiers. Additionally items like the new Reach of the Counsel makes id rares of the same type seem far less rewarding than in previous iterations of the game. Is this seen as a problem internally? Are there any steps taken to ensure unique items don't cannibalize competing rares. A: I definitely agree this is a problem. While it's cool to have powerful uniques available, there are issues if they cause players to stop looking at rares. We have plans, though. The introduction of new base types over time and some experimental league mechanics coming up in future leagues may spur a resurgence of awesome rare crafting :-) "experimental league mechanics"...sounds like that could be fun to guess about. So many ways they could go about boosting crafting through league mechanics. " I think the argument would go something like this for the hypothetical player: I will never, ever have time to spam grind maps. I don't care about the difference between standard and challenge leagues. I have beaten normal after playing for 2 weeks. When I beat the final boss, I have finished the game. My options are now participate in the 'end game' of Cruel, or quit the game forever. Something like that maybe, idk. Last edited by innervation on Jul 12, 2016, 8:54:27 PM
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" The reason this happens is because people don't 'find' gear items, they 'shop' for gear items on xyz with currency (formerly known as crafting orbs) ground up from farming easy content or purchased via rmt. After doing even a tiny bit of this, the likelihood of ever finding anything that will be an upgrade is next to nil. It's easier to speed farm for sure flips than spend any time at all collecting things, so they don't. That crafting thing will need to be nearly free before any upper player will spend any currency into it over speed shopping with xyz. |
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End-game for me means running t15 maps with the hardest mods. However, there is zero reason to do so considering the loot drops from such maps are no better than spamming less expensive and more common maps. Therefore I hope they actually give us a reason to invest time in building strong characters to do hard maps.
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I've always looked at endgame as a way to test your meddle, both in skill and gear.
Endgame does require grind, all sorts of it. But not so much where its the sole focus of your play. You shouldn't be spending 90% of your time grinding and 10% advancing/testing your meddle. Last edited by cesmode on Jul 12, 2016, 10:03:36 PM
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Not really a big endgame player, but I had this thought many times (it may be trivial, sorry if I sound dumb):
We seek two things in an area: engagament (difficulty, fun) and rewards (experience, Ascendancy points, items), and this is restricted by the cost of playing the area (orbs used, time consumed, and the expected experience loss because of the risk of death). GGG has tried to push many times Merciless Act IV as an alternate endgame but they have failed because the area doesn't have enough difficulty even if it can be rewarding enough (via divination cards or whatever). That's the reason Merciless Labyrinth feels way crapier than Uber Labyrinth. Red maps have big rewards (experience and items) but the cost in time, orbs and risk makes it not worth it compared to some Yellow Maps. ... Personally, I'd love if they somehow made Merciless more harder (I don't know, difficulty buffs after killing Malachai, Prophecy system as a way to have difficult missions there, whatever) to make it a proper farm spot complimentary to mapping. Also, the max area level should crept up with time (maps would start at a higher level). Not sure if the big difference in levels between white and red maps is a good idea (having less tiers could alleviate a lot of the problems with mapping), but whatever, I'm not the expert. Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 | |
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They don't have to make anything 'harder'. They need to tone down the out of control upper ranged AoE damage potential. The gap is too wide between low and high.
There IS difficulty here, but the only people who see it are the ones not playing shopping of exile and/or the out of control AoE metas. If THAT is not addressed soonishly, there is nothing GGG will be able to do to make things 'more difficult' without exacerbating the existing problem. |
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