Reddit is Going Nuts Over Trade

"

grepman wrote:

"

Druga1757 wrote:

That's why price tracking is valuable - keeps tracks of sales of items, and when someone puts up an item to be listed, it pops up with the price for equivalent items over the past couple of days, or week, etc. Information is key, and educating sellers goes a long way to help curb bot sniping.

you are approaching it from the wrong end imo

manual trade will never be as easy, convenient or fast as auto-buyout trade. thats the point.

first, its so much easier to remove bots abilities than to educate the whole game population on prices. GGG has to keep whole transaction log and perform real-time statistical analysis, which eats a lot of resources.

and even if you do manage educate the population, you have to remember it's not uniform. some people are ok underselling in order to receive currency NOW. and not just noobs. if you have a big ticket item and want some upgrades now, you will sell that item half an exalt less to sell it now.

again, there wont be a condition where a automated buyout would be inferior to manual buyout. no such situation. automation is stronger, bigger, faster and mistake-free (if made by someone who is mistake-free). you will be facing an uphill battle with no solution.

GGGs stance has firmly been no auto buyout, and it's a stand I support 100%. once you introduce autobuyout, it becomes easily the most efficient thing to play the AH and bot. And we all know how obsessed people are with efficiency. The premium stash tabs already made trading extremely more efficient than it used to be.

So put a 24 hr timer on buyouts, where the seller can accept it early (asynchronously ingame or on the official website) so the sale goes through in under 24 hrs. Or another buyer can come in a put in a higher bid, resetting the 24 hr buyout timer.

I like the idea of having an actual shop location like the earlier suggestion of a chest in your hideout. How quickly could a bot travel from hideout to hideout buying up cheap things?

But this still leaves me with wondering how I would find other people's shops, or how I would advertise my own sales. It would be super awesome to visit a "guild store." Rather than a single chest in one dude's hideout there could be venders from everyone in the guild all in the same place. A superstore rather than a mom 'n' pop store.

I would still like to have a "showcase" of sorts next to a "for sale" chest, so that people could see things and make offers even if I don't list a price. Personally I would never except gambling orbs as payment for something truly valuable, only another item of similar awesomeness. A "trade" and not a "buy."

who cares this shit is over in a couple months anbd we start again

i think we should be able to trade micro transactions...i gotta bunch of shit i don't use or want

make it pay to win
gimme

"

Druga1757 wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

"

Druga1757 wrote:

That's why price tracking is valuable - keeps tracks of sales of items, and when someone puts up an item to be listed, it pops up with the price for equivalent items over the past couple of days, or week, etc. Information is key, and educating sellers goes a long way to help curb bot sniping.

you are approaching it from the wrong end imo

manual trade will never be as easy, convenient or fast as auto-buyout trade. thats the point.

first, its so much easier to remove bots abilities than to educate the whole game population on prices. GGG has to keep whole transaction log and perform real-time statistical analysis, which eats a lot of resources.

and even if you do manage educate the population, you have to remember it's not uniform. some people are ok underselling in order to receive currency NOW. and not just noobs. if you have a big ticket item and want some upgrades now, you will sell that item half an exalt less to sell it now.

again, there wont be a condition where a automated buyout would be inferior to manual buyout. no such situation. automation is stronger, bigger, faster and mistake-free (if made by someone who is mistake-free). you will be facing an uphill battle with no solution.

GGGs stance has firmly been no auto buyout, and it's a stand I support 100%. once you introduce autobuyout, it becomes easily the most efficient thing to play the AH and bot. And we all know how obsessed people are with efficiency. The premium stash tabs already made trading extremely more efficient than it used to be.

So put a 24 hr timer on buyouts, where the seller can accept it early (asynchronously ingame or on the official website) so the sale goes through in under 24 hrs. Or another buyer can come in a put in a higher bid, resetting the 24 hr buyout timer.

well then you're basically punishing the players even more, right ? they'd have far less qol than they do now because they have to wait 24hrs for a buyout.

I dont know, seems to me you're kinda trying to work around bots, but why not NOT have them altogether with no autobuyout ?

I mean, lets say you have a goat living in your room. it kinda sucks but you work around it somehow. but wouldnt it be much, much easier to just not have a goat living with you in the first place ?

I mean...

Our AH is @ hit s then go to public parties

Its new so it dont act like a AH wait for updates KAPPA

"

grepman wrote:

"

Druga1757 wrote:

So put a 24 hr timer on buyouts, where the seller can accept it early (asynchronously ingame or on the official website) so the sale goes through in under 24 hrs. Or another buyer can come in a put in a higher bid, resetting the 24 hr buyout timer.

well then you're basically punishing the players even more, right ? they'd have far less qol than they do now because they have to wait 24hrs for a buyout.

I dont know, seems to me you're kinda trying to work around bots, but why not NOT have them altogether with no autobuyout ?

I mean, lets say you have a goat living in your room. it kinda sucks but you work around it somehow. but wouldnt it be much, much easier to just not have a goat living with you in the first place ?

No, you get a yard/pen and you put the goat outside. What you're doing with a goat in the first place is none of my business ;)

Just because there's a design problem is no excuse to give up. Otherwise, why have trade at all, because RMT? GGG was willing to put in trade despite the problem of RMT, and allocate resources to fight RMT. They can put in an AH and allocate resources to fight AH bots - the easiest solutions being those I outlined, as just an example.

edit: also, make the timer adjustable by the player, then, from 1hr to 24hr. The point is that it's a compromise between instant buyouts, and no buyouts (bids, maybe a reserve and longer timers of 1-5 days).

"

MonopolyLegend wrote:

Not getting a response at all leaves me stuck wondering if they're just ignoring me or otherwise occupied for the moment.

I've had a couple of those, the worst was a player I saw as they got online over a three day period and tried politely messaging them when they were just sitting in their hideout. As this was the only player selling a Demigod's Dominance Golden Mantle for under 15 ex, I was willing to be patient. They had three for sale (3 ex - 5 ex price range). I rarely ever have that much in a temp league - but I was lucky with a orb drop.

I never did get a response - though I did see that the person selling them ended up with 5 for sale (similar price range) in the last couple days of the league. Prices jumped up about 12 ex when it hit standard, and the seller sold them all off. My guess is that seller wasn't selling, he/she was just buying and trying to get the price lowered so he/she could buy more.

"

MonopolyLegend wrote:

Which means waiting and possibly trying them again in a few minutes. The frequency that this occurs is what makes it so frustrating.

That part I haven't hit that often. I would say that maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 don't respond - maybe I've just been lucky?

"

MonopolyLegend wrote:

It's not just a few minutes when you have to message 10 different people just to get a warm body, and even then they may be a nightmare to deal with (attitude, language barrier, etc.). Trading is the opposite of a fun experience in this game.

I am sorry to hear that it is frustrating for you and others. Maybe GGG could add some feature similar to a "Do not disturb" specifically for trading? It could show up as a yellow or orange button in PoE.trade - the player might be online, but AFK (yellow) or otherwise DND for trade (orange).

I wouldn't call trading fun - I'd much rather be playing and finding the items myself, though I do have some friends on my list that I occasionally game with and started talking with because of a trade.

Language barriers - I only ran into one time ever (Pinyin characters - and the smattering of Chinese I once knew, didn't help me. ) I have a lot of respect for those that don't speak English as their primary language, but can make the effort to communicate in English.

"

MonopolyLegend wrote:

"

DalaiLama wrote:

Lastly, a player isn't obligated to respond to your offer anymore than a cute girl hanging out at the bar is obligated to talk to you. There are plenty of other fishes on Poe.trade.

What makes another "fish" any more attractive than the one messaging you in that moment in those scenarios where the b/o is being offered? That should be a quick/clean sale - seller asks for a price, buyer matches the price. No negotiating required. Why would you pass that opportunity as a seller?

I don't understand it either. I usually avoid items priced at an alch or less (unless there are a ton of them for that price) because I figure the tiny price in orbs isn't really worth the seller's time to stop and trade.

If I don't get a response to the first 1 or 2 after 3-5 minutes, I'll jump up several notches in price (as long as it is a reasonable price) and try again. The responses for a 1 chaos item for example, might be iffy, but at 3 chaos the response is almost always much faster.

"

MonopolyLegend wrote:

"

DalaiLama wrote:

I've had numerous times where someone was mapping and got back to me afterwards for the trade. I've had some tell me the item was sold a few min ago (and sure enough, a check later on shows it missing from Poe.trade). I've had people that were AFK message me later, sometimes MUCH later to see if I still wanted to trade. In some cases I did, and in others I had already made the trade I needed.

That's fine as well. They're getting back to you eventually rather than simply ignoring your message. They're making an effort to acknowledge you in some way, and that little bit of human decency is the kind of "player interaction" that should be occurring for a functional system.

I would hope so too. Unfortunately, I see it happen in R/L so often for various reasons, that I think future humans are in danger of becoming mute. Maybe PoE could have a trade message to text function, where the recipient would see your trade offer on their phone?

"

MonopolyLegend wrote:

But people are assholes on the internet where everyone is mostly anonymous - it is very much like road rage/traffic issues where everyone feels like everyone else is being an idiot, so they only look out for themselves or even make it a point to be an ass to others in some cases.

It is certainly a lot easier to ignore other people's feelings when you never have to see their reactions. "MFW" for example - no need for that when you can actually see someone or hear their voice.

On the flip side, getting to play and chat with people all over the world is really cool. I'm not sure if its something in the water, but the players connecting through the Amsterdam server have usually been very good at the game and extraordinarily polite. I've had a lot of good experience with people from all over - to the extent that I rarely worry about the latency factor.

I would agree that the gaming should be fun, and not feel like someone is wasting their time for nothing. I hope GGG can find a way to make trade smoother or less frustrating with some minor tweaks without going to a fully automated system.

"

Siochan wrote:

They should implement SOMETHING even if they replicate the web browser application poe.trade into the game.

I would think (I might be way off base here) that the website owner most likely put some considerable time and effort into the site. If GGG had developed the site on their own, would it likely have all the features that Poe.trade does? Would it stay updated and have new features added on a regular basis?

Some games have mods. I think of PoE.trade as a game mod - one that is done extremely well. I think it would be wrong of GGG just to copy it, and I don't think they would have the time or inclination to update and expand such a feature if it was in house.

"

Siochan wrote:

I'll say it again... Leaving a game in order to play the game is absolutely amateur development and pathetic!

If you had to quit the game, browse the website, and the log back into the game to trade, I would agree with you. Alt+tabbing to the site, and then whispering a player for a trade scarcely constitutes leaving the game.

"

Siochan wrote:

P.S. You say 'limited resources' yet we have multiple releases of the shitty lab.

Judging by the level 75 enchantments being in the gaming files when the lab was originally released, I would guess that GGG already had the lab done or mostly done. Uber lab may have received some minor tweaking based on player feedback from reg/cruel/merciless labs, but I doubt a lot of resources were needed after the initial lab release.

Like many people have said trading automation is superior than manual trading in literally every single way imaginable at this point even for a game like PoE.

1. A forced automation also stops all the fake listers that's just committing fraud 24/7 in this fucking game.

2. And due to listing frauds no longer works, market value will be revealed in black and white (tho you can still go a bit lower for a quick sale or pay a bit more for a quick buy just like you could RIGHT NOW wow mind fucking blown right? welcome to 2016), and market will stabilize faster.

3. Then due to the marketplace (not necessary AH btw) listings now shows true market value on items, everyone will be able to buy/sell anything at true supply-and-demand fashion and not get cheated out by your average everyday fraudsters poe traders.

4. Because now you cant have all these fraud losers and people running around trade scamming more people might actually enjoy this game like a game should be.



AH bot? lol PoE Trade already has trade bots blatantly fucking built in as part of their website. This poe.trade official AH bot actually helps a ton in PoE when I do fake listing to make some quick exalts.



Trade Automation (again not necessary AH) is better than current haggling system in almost every single possible ways. Also in case you missed it there are games that also allow haggling between 2 players THRU Auction House interface... I know right? welcome to 2016.

All the "dirty tricks" that could works on AutoTrade/AH also works on manual trading... but not the other way around.

Forced Trading (no pulling auction once there's an existing bet) after the initial agreement has met kills off all fake listers.
Automation kills off all issues with "sorry im not switching league go f urself" "player is afk" "sorry in lab" "sorry in rota" "go fuck urself im busy" "no reply".
and so on.

Also an automated system or AH also means that officials like GGG could now implement house rules as they see fit... GGG could choose to fuck new players by lifting some limits, or GGG could choose to implement fair trading and make PoE a less dirty place.

And GGG could even let community to vote on what "limits" they put on trading... either way PoE will get a lot less dirty and shitty and I really cant see PoE losing players because trading is now 10000x faster, easier and safer.