So the Orlando shooter has burial rights? You're shiting me...

It kind of remembers me the savage reservations in Brave New World. God, that book was depressing.

Generally, raising living conditions helps to mitigate a lot of issues, but Afghanistan is in a very inhospitable place to happen.

If anything, we need sociologists, or maybe even do old fashioned trial and error with this. But I'm the optimist...the west has just gone YOLO.

He's still human, albeit a very shitty one. I strongly believe in basic human rights and that all humans have these rights. Now we could certainly debate if having a burial is such a right...

"

DnAngel wrote:

"

diablofdb wrote:

World would be much better if we would get rid of all the extremist[...]it is a ideology of violence, and I denounce ideologies that promote war and terrorism

I don't think you realize it, but you're contradicting yourself, you're putting yourself in the same category as the people you're trying to fight against.

What is so different about "us" and "them" that makes you believe that they're terrorists for attacking us, and we're just "fighting for our freedom" when we bombard their cities and gun down civilians with helis and drones?

You are confusing the use of violence with motive. The same thing could be said - What is so different about a woman kicking a man in the groin just because he is trying to rape her.

I would turn your question around and ask, shouldn't the people who let the terrorists continue to do what they want out of political correctness be charged as accessories to terrorism?

The methods, motives, first use of force, all of these are different for terrorists. Thinking they are remotely the same is delusional.

"

deathflower wrote:

I would say it has more to do with America foreign policies that cause deaths

So, please tell me how in the year 630, well over a thousand years before the United States was a nation, how American foreign policy caused a budding warlord to raid a peaceful city, take it over and force the people (who were polytheists) to his new religion?

The city - Mecca.

"

deathflower wrote:

Negative Portrayals of Muslims as terrorists and negative sentiments

Facts are not portrayals, nor sentiments.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

I don't know if Ray is spewing hate, Dalai, but he does seem intent on painting all Muslims as radicals.

He mentioned that the attacks he listed were done in the name of Islam, and he mentioned that they were all done by muslims. He did not say all muslims are radicals or terrorists. Any such assumption sprang to the reader's mind as a response to the information presented, and it is the reader - the perceiver - of such information that is painting any/all/some/few/no muslims as radicals.

There is an overabundance of such horrors because there is an unending supply of such crimes. They are primarily associated with one group because one group is primarily committing them.

Does this mean all or even most muslims are radicals, intent on harming others? No, it doesn't. I and you seem to know differently from personal experiences and possibly other education. That doesn't dispel the high correlation, nor the statistical anomaly of the associations listed.

You hit the nail on the head in one of your previous posts (in this or another thread). The problem isn't Islam per se, nor muslims, but those leaders within the community who abuse the religion and culture to turn angry/frustrated or otherwise disaffected people into monstrous killing machines.

Islam is particularly vulnerable to this abuse because the leaders have NOT done a wholesale denouncement of such violence, which you mention next:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

The effect of that, regardless of intent, on a macro scale, would be hatred and violence. Progress is reaching a point where the extremist Islam can be honestly labeled as not-Islam

How Islam is perceived as a whole will depend on how the leaders handle these issues. Just as the Pope and the Catholic clergy were/are viewed in a negative light for their handling of sexual abuses - the Islamic religious and political leaders need to respond to the ongoing and persistent violence. Failure to do so will cause a profound backlash.

The myths propagated now (that the problem is just islamophobic percepetion - is what Ray's post was meant to illustrate) will only be subject to media/academic manipulation for a short period of time (generation and a half at best).

I think the only solution that could be carried out practically (which would still require the cooperation of islamic nations) would be the prosecution and extradition of every person recruiting and promoting such violence. If the supreme cleric of country X issues a violent fatwa, then that cleric gets extradited and prosecuted. If local mosque leader in city Y is praising violence in the name of Islam, than he too will suffer the full effects of the law.

If the mosque itself is complicit in terrorist fund raising, then it is razed and the property confiscated.

I'd expect the same thing if some (for an example - not a likely or actual scenario) presbyterian church was recruiting and training people to bomb episcopalians.

Part of the problem does lie with our president and the liberal press. By refusing to use "radical" islam, he had left the association with all of islam wide open. If they had distinguished the radical followers from the regular believers the public focus would likely remain on those guilty of promoting and enabling these atrocities.

I wonder if the local cemetery can't refuse the remains of Mateen. I can't imagine that the future security won't cost them a fortune.

he dindu nuffin

"

DnAngel wrote:

"

Raycheetah wrote:

...

It's easy to call "them" terrorists, when they grew up hearing the bombs fall at night

So the bombs that fell in New Hyde Park, New York, or St Lucie, Florida were when?

Look up the history and birth places, childhoods of many of these terrorists and then tell me how many grew up hearing bombs falling at night.

Most of them heard about as many bombs growing up as just about anyone else did. The people that grow up in violent neighborhoods here in the US don't frequently turn out to be suicide bombers or join up with ISIS either.

"

Raycheetah wrote:

"

That is a very long, very sad list.

What's truly tragic is that it's not even remotely comprehensive, either globally or in savagery. Truly heinous, unimaginable acts of grotesque cruelty and exploitation take place everywhere from England (including the Rotherham Muslim rape gangs who systematically exploited well over a THOUSAND little girls) to the Middle East, itself, where entire populations are exterminated or enslaved in the name of this socio-political creed wrapped up in a syncretized jumble of Arabic paganism and hijacked Abrahamic monotheism. =-[.]-=

You're right.. it's not comprehensive. Comprehensive would include all non-Muslim such occurrences that would, upon being utterly buried, show the flaws in your reasoning.

You continue to very greatly disturb me. I find myself wishing that I could hide your posts and those in which you are quoted to avoid seeing your hate propaganda. Valued Poster. Heh.

---

As for giving such people burial rights, how you see this will come down to your beliefs. I don't think the dead get any benefit from an elaborate burial over being cremated and flushed down the toilet. Burials are for the living (who didn't carry out the crimes). If you think the dead do get a benefit, probably nothing anyone says will reduce your anger. Regardless, the local laws prevail.

"

Durentis wrote:

You continue to very greatly disturb me. I find myself wishing that I could hide your posts and those in which you are quoted to avoid seeing your hate propaganda. Valued Poster. Heh.

POE Forum Ignore List

I can't help you with the problem of people quoting him, though. I don't have the same objection to the content of his posts that you do. I just don't want to see the ridiculous butterfly nonsense he litters the forum with.

=-[.]-=

~~~Peace~~~

--Superman A+ #1--

=-[.]-= =-[.]-=

Do you really want his spirit haunting this realm forever? ;))