Has Ascendancy really created diversity?

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Bars wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

On the risk of taking us away from the topic... picking on ascendancy... I'd say the strongest force against build diversity (what ever that is) is the basic imbalance between the three defenses... armor/ES/evasion. Anything that relies on evasion isn't even considered a "build" by most standards.

Not really. Evasion is better than armour in most situations. Even the world's first level 100 character in PoE was an evasion-based bow ranger.

Havoc first level 100 in what was the Default League was not Evasion-based, he spec'd into Iron Reflexes like any sane evasion player at that time since evasion was even worst back then than what it is now.

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cesmode wrote:

Again, taking out a fortify duelist, what other viable summoners can be derived from other classes now? (just using summoner as an example).

erm .....

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Hunwulf wrote:

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cesmode wrote:

But overall, do we have an increased variety of builds now?

Think about it...(to name a few examples)

If you want to go full summoner, you roll with Witch > Necromancer and grab Flesh binder, Soul Weaver, Mistress of Sacrifice. These are a given and you really can't deviate from these three if you want to be a good summoner. Even Spirit Eater is more for DD builds, not summoner.

Well, after playing 2 Necro SRS/Zombie/Spectre Witches I'm started this league a Spectre Summoner Guardian and having a blast.

For me, Ascendancy classes giving more diversity in game.

Guardian Summoner is pretty strong&fun imo.

Also, what Raics said.

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thevdende wrote:

Actually I feel like it had reduced build viability by gating certain mechanics behind a class. You used to be able to make a spell casting duelist, but with the duelist ascendancies its not useful at all. I guess it was never intended to be, but at least it was an option and it wasn't as bad as it seems.

Oh, the irony! :)

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thevdende wrote:

Actually I feel like it had reduced build viability by gating certain mechanics behind a class. You used to be able to make a spell casting duelist, but with the duelist ascendancies its not useful at all. I guess it was never intended to be, but at least it was an option and it wasn't as bad as it seems.

Oh, the irony! :)

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

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Bars wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

On the risk of taking us away from the topic... picking on ascendancy... I'd say the strongest force against build diversity (what ever that is) is the basic imbalance between the three defenses... armor/ES/evasion. Anything that relies on evasion isn't even considered a "build" by most standards.

Not really. Evasion is better than armour in most situations. Even the world's first level 100 character in PoE was an evasion-based bow ranger.

Havoc first level 100 in what was the Default League was not Evasion-based, he spec'd into Iron Reflexes like any sane evasion player at that time since evasion was even worst back then than what it is now.

What league are you talking about because Evasion was the best because you could max out Block and Spell Block while getting Acrobatics and Ondars. If we are talking pre 1.3 evasion was the best way to play the game because it had the strongest layered defense.

You always had the illusion of build diversity. There will always be 1 option that is the most efficient way to build a particular build. If shadow created the best build route for a skill then all the other starting areas were weaker choices. Or if Marauder was the best melee choice, then everything around it was inherently weaker by default.

Ascendancy hasn't changed anything except give you a reason to potientially deviate from the standard path.

Not to mention, every ascendancy point still to this date is an additional boost to what existed pre-ascendancy. Everything you could do before, you could do now.

Of course!

Every single attempt of a build is sort of viable now. "True melee" builds can easily down Atziri. You have to try HARD to make a builds that's not good enough to reach 90+. You can more or less build what you want, and level the build almost as far as you want.

But if your definition of "build diversity" = "balance" or "equally fast clearing speed", build diversity is impossible. And that's sort of a good thing.

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Phrazz wrote:

Of course!

Every single attempt of a build is sort of viable now. "True melee" builds can easily down Atziri. You have to try HARD to make a builds that's not good enough to reach 90+. You can more or less build what you want, and level the build almost as far as you want.

But if your definition of "build diversity" = "balance" or "equally fast clearing speed", build diversity is impossible. And that's sort of a good thing.

Not only a good, but also a very important thing to never forget when talking about POE.

I have an earthquake raider

so
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yes?

Yes it added diversity.

Whether people want to be diverse, or be strong enough to clear the most difficult contents with ease and without dying is something everyone has to decide for themselves. The cool thing about POE is that there isn't that one goal everyone has to achieve. Ascendancy gave us even more possibilities to play the game.

I understand people find out certain combinations of items, gems and skills are more powerful than others, and for those a powerful character might just be their goal.

I for myself make it my challenge to find something cool like a skillgem, item, mechanic,theme, node in the tree whatever it is, and make the MOST EFFICIENT build around that thing. That is how I create diversity for myself.

POE gives you the tools to create your own diversity, no doubt, it's all there.
Ascedancy classes just gave us more tools than before.
How you use them and what you choose to create them for is completely up to you:)

Just my point of view