Has Ascendancy really created diversity?
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The most important question: Who said that ascendancy-classes would give more diversity?
@thevdende: Way to kill a thread. Relax. The Sirus fight is a disgrace.
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" It's not surprising you can't deduce that for your self, if you can't even see how good the champion ascendancy is for spellcasters. | |
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Just to give two examples OP: I saw a guy playing scion 3x Ancestral Warchief totems - helm gets one extra totem summoned and he used Bringer of Rain to make it a 6/7L from the helm slot.
You can also go Champion summoner because they have 'allies get xxx buffs' and the taunt debuffs benefit minions too. While that's not as good as Witch summoner, playing Duelist summoner wasn't any closer to going witch pre-Ascendancy either so... I'd guess that yes, we have more diversity now. It was especially true when Scion's berzerker was good. Blanket things like 'damage leeched as life' really muddy the waters of enabling non-meta builds while facilitating the truly OP ones. |
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" I partially agree. Only because even pre-AC I would see streamers doing all sorts of builds and doing just fine, into the late 80s and early 90s...Was it really just a handful? Or by that do you mean only a handful reached 95-100? | |
" Don't know about shortly before Ascendancy, I wasn't playing at that time. But there was a period when the Awakening hit where there were basically three good skills: incinerate (subsequently nerfed to the ground), cyclone (subsequently nerfed) and poison arrow (reworked into caustic arrow). Almost everything else was trash. Perhaps diversity was better later on but my point still stands: the ascendancy classes enabled more builds. The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again. Last edited by Bars on Jun 22, 2016, 9:27:41 AM
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" None of the nodes in Champion explicitly state they only work for melee or attacks, excluding the minor nodes and the Unstoppable Champion node before Fortify, which is a small price to pay for something which used to be exclusive to melee. Champion has a multitude of different things you can do with it, you can't expect every ascendancy to cater to every playstyle. The fact that Champion is so versatile is almost mind boggling because the Duelist sits at the very bottom of the tree, where spellcasters go to die. | |
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I think ascendancies fit into the original "Theme" of the characters; You can build however you want, but, certain characters are going to excel at certain archetypes of builds.
Most characters, I've not actually looked into all of them since there's some I avoid playing, have an Ascendancy that lets you spend at least 6 points that should benefit the vast majority of builds, so there should always be a way to get at least some benefit from an ascendancy class, just not as much as other build types. The simple that is that Ascendancy didn't remove anything at all, so, it didn't make build diversity worse. You don't need Ascendancy, you can do fine without it (I wouldn't complain if you could stick to the "Core" class and get 8 passive points instead), and it enabled more builds that otherwise would be subpar (Though that may just be some Ascendancies being overpowered compared to other options). | |
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Yes, absolutely. Today I'd legit play some builds I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole before Ascendancy. Actually, I already have played some of those builds.
Another awesome thing about Ascendancy is that it, to some extent, undid the damage 2.0 dogshit patch did to build diversity. It pushed many builds back into relevance. 177
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" After Ascendacy, I've seen an SRS duelist (!) level to 100, there's a streamer playing ED Duelist, there's a shit ton of people who have played Spark, whatever caster Duelist. Before Ascendancy, I've never even heard of caster Duelist. 177
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Right, it's a matter of what diversity means to you, if it's having more functional builds then ascendancies certainly brought more diversity and if diversity means being free to pick any of 3 or 4 chars for your target build with minor differences, then it reduced it.
I like to think that builds are now more 'diverse' and less 'open'. Personally, I'm enjoying it very much, it's known that I enjoy making hodgepodge builds that barely work, and ascendancies nudged some of them over the limit of usability and comfort. Besides, you can look at it this way, there were exactly zero reasons to make a summoner duelist, but now his champion class has some pretty neat ally-centered perks that work well with summons, not saying he's as good as a necro but there's a point in doing it where there was none. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs. ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► Last edited by raics on Jun 22, 2016, 9:44:55 AM
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