If retrospective nerf to Consuming Dark will make it to release I will hate you soooo much!
" It was not intended as an offense. Point is if you die because your damage is high, you don't have enough survivability to survive it. It's a fact and as I said I was there too. I used pure fire damage Incinerate and I kinda survived ele reflect without -max resists. Problem was that most of my leech was used to cover reflected damage while I would rather use it to cover unavoidable damage I got from monsters and bosses... as you might notice with CI pretty much any damage is unavoidable. Thats why Ive chosen chaos conversion. PRice was my damage was way lower. I can give you example, with wand I dropped yesterday I have 5k more dps. Not even counting that with fire oriented build I could go for Fire Penetration gem and other perks. | |
" Consuming dark has an opportunity cost. If you reach 100% conversion you give up ignite (or shock if you're using 3 dragons), and besides conversion and poison, a top roll only has 60% spell damage and 60% crit. You can get much better caster daggers for less than the price of a legacy consuming dark. Any spell damage roll legacy consuming dark is ~3 ex minimum, and the cheapest 60% spell damage legacy consuming dark I see is currently 13 ex on standard. You can get excellent daggers for 3ex or less. This dagger I bought for 3ex (and I have more just like it): To wield a consuming dark, I give up a dagger just like that one, which means I lose approx. 113% crit, 10% spell damage, 21-45 fire damage to spells, and 27% crit multiplier. Using consuming a dark takes that away from you. If you need to dual wield non-legacy 50% consuming darks, you lose twice that. You lose 226% crit, 20% spell damage, 42-90 fire damage to spells, and 54% crit multiplier. This is really a massive cost. If consuming dark goes to 30% it will be a shit unique for most builds on standard, especially builds like incinerate or flame totem that don't worry about reflect (and if GGG ever nerfs monster reflect, will they rebalance these? Of course not, they'll remain shit tier like all the old uniques that have been nerfed into obsolescence and forgotten). Because rare caster daggers and wands are so much better, the opportunity cost will be too high to dual wield these for just 60% conversion. One perfect legacy consuming dark was already quite a sacrifice for my character. My tooltip on crit flame totem is 20k higher using these wands: And with the upcoming affix synergy bias for caster wands, getting wands like these or better will only be cheaper. So, absolutely, a 30% consuming dark is very far from "solid". If the price on these drops to 1 chaos you may be able to say that they are solid compared to rare daggers or wands you can buy for 1c. But compared to wands/daggers you can buy for 3ex, a 30% consuming dark is complete shit. To use 2, for daggers you're giving up 10 passives worth of crit, 2 passives worth of spell damage, 4 passives worth of crit multiplier, and 1/2 a 20/20 added damage gem. For wands you give up more (maybe only 3 passives worth of crit, but 10+ passives worth of cast speed and 2 more passives worth of spell damage). GGG dev team is very far off base if they think nerfing consuming dark from 75% conversion to 30% conversion isn't an overnerf. This is a 60% nerf. Voltaxic is only a 40% nerf and voltaxic still allows you to shock, and voltaxic DPS is actually decent compared to other bows you can buy for the same price. The reflect mitigation for voltaxic is also more valuable since it's used with skills that generally have greater range and hence are more vulnerable to off screen reflect. Very few players use fire spells in an off screen capacity. And if you're using consuming darks with cold skills and additional conversions (i.e. pyre), the ring slot is another opportunity cost (as well as the loss of freeze). Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client. Last edited by Vhlad on May 24, 2016, 7:54:50 AM
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vhlad, you can stack damage as much as you can with 75% consuming. with those fancy daggers/wands of yours you cant. 3ex daggers have really nice stats, it's true but you cant benefit much from using them in pve because of reflect.
"You have great power. You're right to be proud. It's unfortunate you have to die now, but I will honor you with 45% of my strength."
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" You are funny. You keep repeating how Consuming Dark is unfair because you can stack damage as much as you want yet when I said you are glasscannon with your mirrored gear you said you don't die on reflect. Make up your mind already. When you stack damage you either die to reflect or you don't. You can't have both and keep using it as an argument whenever you want. Last edited by Diphal on May 24, 2016, 9:08:27 AM
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" I'm pretty sure the storm's a brewin' |
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Recruiting for Archnemesis League/Siege of the Atlas!
Umbra Exiles: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3244875 The Official Path of Exile Guild Directory: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1192567 | |
" The reflect avoidance is not as valuable for fire spells as it is for bow attacks or lightning spells like spark that have very far range and high duration. Compared to bow attacks, very few fire spells have that sort of off screen capacity (and fewer still are actually used by players outside of pvp). If you're not offscreening you can see the reflect and adjust your playstyle accordingly. There are many things you can do. For example, with flameblast you can build up fewer stacks vs reflect and do many smaller hits (of course a full stack buildup will kill you but it's stupid to do that vs reflect). You can also kill the reflect monster by killing a nearby monster and using proliferation. Or throw traps/totems. Or summon SRS. Or brute force the reflect with proper flask usage. The majority of fire spells are short range so you can do these things. Brute forcing reflect is easier to do with spells since the damage (real damage, not tooltip) is so much lower than LA, especially if the reflect mob is near a wall. And when you're using LA or spark you can't rely on behavioral changes like flask usage vs. reflect because your attack range is greater than your visible range. Many popular fire spells don't care about reflect at all because they don't deal spike damage (things like incinerate or flame totem that do many small hits) or they don't reflect at all (traps/mines) or they focus on ignite/burning (RF) or they can't use consuming dark even if they care about reflect (coc discharge with vagan dagger and ES shield). You don't have a situation where every fire user or spell user is using consuming dark. There may be some bias in new leagues because players don't have great rares yet and everyone wants to use daggers for whirling blades, because whirling blades gives great mobility without even needing a 4L or any significant investment. It's an error to diagnose that as a problem specifically with consuming dark, because it wouldn't be used in new leagues as much if there were more unique caster daggers or claws. But we do have close to a situation with bow users where everyone is using voltaxic, though. DPS-wise voltaxic is a decent bow for the price and you get to keep shock. The drawbacks for using consuming darks are much higher and the benefits aren't as great. It seems like GGG did a very shallow opportunity cost analysis to nerf consuming dark more than voltaxic. Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client. Last edited by Vhlad on May 24, 2016, 9:28:50 AM
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" Why can't people be a little bit more objective about most things - it would make so much things less complicated and stressfull. Try to calm down. Let's take a quick look at Consuming dark: - tier 2 spell damage modifier - grants a very powerfull 7th link while beeing a 1h weapon - grants a huge number of stats (int) - grants a way to mitigate reflect - grants a way to mostly bypass enemy resistances for fire builds - it is a dagger, so it has implicit global crit chance - whirling blades in comparison to a rare dagger what do we lose? 38% crit multi and 100% spell crit --> this can be easily compansated with jewels or a few extra passive points spent if you really need it (in general you don't even need it at all because damage is more than sufficient) This unique item is very very strong for its rarity if you look at it that way - there is no other item currently in the game that comes close which can do so much versatile stuff at once without gimping your character. I personaly was never a fan of the design of Voltaxic Rift in the past (since it was a supporter unique only created to solve the reflect problem for LA back than without doing anything creative besides that - and it go through the design process this way; absolutly lame if you ask me) I also never was a fan of Consuming Dark when it was introduced - such items are pure powercreep compared to GGG's original design philosophy introducing only interesting uniques with some significant drawback you have to build around if you want to have access to the unique build defining property. Nevertheless I used both items, Consuming Dark and Voltaxic Rift on different builds builds in Perandus and in Perandus Flashback. I enjoyed both builds greatly but i also agree on nerfing the items because they are simply too strong for their current rarity and their opportunity cost (aka nothing atm). Nerfing the conversion rate is healthy for the game in the long term so i agree with that approach; i would even go and nerf those items a bit further and raise their rarity tier and gate them behind lvl 78 maps (like it was for Voltaxic once before they changed it). Voltaxic should not be able to shock with chaos damage - that was stupid from the beginning onwards; chaos damage should not have the benefit of a status ailment because it already has other great benefits compared to elemental damage. How stupid it would be if there was a unique item in the game which said "your fire damage can also poison" - i think you understand where i am going with that? Consuming Dark on the other hand should not give the full effect of poison to your spells - half of the effect would also be nice to get a free DoT effect on top of you spell scaling. After the conversion nerf you won't be able to shock with Voltaxic as easily, or maybe you even can't anymore in Endgame maps vs high HP mobs. The reason for this is very simple: You are damage consists of 50% chaos and 50% lightning. Both damage typs are capable to shock but the chance is separated from each other. Your initial hit with each damage type is halfed and much lower than it currently is - since the way shock is dependend on shock duration calculation you won't be likly to surpass the initial treshhold required to apply shock that easily in 2.3. TLDR: it will be much harder and in some cases impossible to shock targets while using Voltaxic Rift due to game mechanics (shock duration calculation/treshhold to apply shock etc.), which makes Voltaxic even weaker - an indirect ("hidden") nerf from GGG, well done! Last edited by Wiesl_1404 on May 24, 2016, 9:34:51 AM
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" Thats just a wild guess for now and probably will have to go down... but it doesn't matter now. Last edited by Diphal on May 24, 2016, 9:47:50 AM
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i was saving my leg consuming darks to sell them at a higher price later on.
damn ;_; [s]only mindless sheep think labyrinth is OK to have in PoE.[/s]
okay nevermind labyrinth, fix dx9 blackscreen instead... |
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