About "we don't want trading too easy" in the last PODCAST

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Maswasnos wrote:

I can't fathom why anyone would want trading to be hard. Trading should be quick, painless, and easy. It should take as little time as possible so you can get back to playing the actual game.

 You must understand that this is an overreaction from the super bad experience of the D3 auction house. Most who played D3 view the auction house as a complete failure and the reason the D3 economy was wrecked by the flippers because it was easy to use. I suppose they don't consider the fact that D3 was overrun by farming bots running 24/7 to harvest top gear that could be flipped for mega gold as the major problem of D3 economy. In PoE GGG has been very good at keeping the gear grinding farming bots out. So that can't ever happen here (I hope so). The elites that have unlimited time to grind farm for currency and high gear are the ones behind the effort to keep trading as a "black art" so that they can justify their high grind time. Elites want to keep top gear as hard to get (and thus super exalt expensive) as possible. Most of us just want to play PoE as a standard monster bashing fun-to-play arpg and not have to take major time away from that just to buy some better gear. Perandus changes all that is a big way and this change scares them. The rest of us are happily experimenting and playing new builds with the new build enabling gear from Perandus.

I think more people are playing to heights they've not played to before in the past is because of the availability and price of top tier uniques. Trade improvements only made it less time consuming to sell stuff. Cadiro increased the supply of Shavs by like 100000%

Stronger, better equipped builds make progression easier - which means both faster, and people running higher % maps, which means the average map pool is probably being sustained at a higher tier.

I'd give at least 85% of the credit to the Perandus mechanics - and most of that to the Cadiro half and not the cache half.

Its pretty easy. Even AH3 didnt have alerts for when a hot item you programed in pops.

Diablo 3 had nothing in poe.trade except seller being offline buying.

poe.trade has way better search filters, no 10 item restriction, and alerts that AH3 never had.

Basically trade here is easier.

improve trading?

i would have players specify how many prefixes and suffixes an item has before they can put it into the trade tab.
if they fail the item gets all affixes removed permanently.

ok, not really serious.

GGG should understand that the correct statement would be:

"we don't want trading too rewarding" (actually: it should not be rewarding at all, in absolute terms)

Otherwise economy (especially in standard) will get worse each month and each league.

Easy means nothing. It can be 'easy' for a bot and 'difficult' for a player. Easy if you know about poetrade and difficult if you do not. It depends on the tool you have and you are willing to use. Until trade is not designed as a non-rewarding alternative to regular play, there will be huge differences between players that (ab)use tools and players who do not.

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Arrowneous wrote:

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Maswasnos wrote:

I can't fathom why anyone would want trading to be hard. Trading should be quick, painless, and easy. It should take as little time as possible so you can get back to playing the actual game.

 You must understand that this is an overreaction from the super bad experience of the D3 auction house. Most who played D3 view the auction house as a complete failure and the reason the D3 economy was wrecked by the flippers because it was easy to use. I suppose they don't consider the fact that D3 was overrun by farming bots running 24/7 to harvest top gear that could be flipped for mega gold as the major problem of D3 economy. In PoE GGG has been very good at keeping the gear grinding farming bots out. So that can't ever happen here (I hope so). The elites that have unlimited time to grind farm for currency and high gear are the ones behind the effort to keep trading as a "black art" so that they can justify their high grind time. Elites want to keep top gear as hard to get (and thus super exalt expensive) as possible. Most of us just want to play PoE as a standard monster bashing fun-to-play arpg and not have to take major time away from that just to buy some better gear. Perandus changes all that is a big way and this change scares them. The rest of us are happily experimenting and playing new builds with the new build enabling gear from Perandus.

The problem with D3 wasn't the auction house, it was the RMAH. The auction house was what it was supposed to be, a FAST way to move shit, so that you could get back to grinding. The people who lived on the auction house were able to make a profit, as intended. The auction house just got a bad name because of the RMAH. The auction house was noob friendly to sellers, because you didn't have to set a buyout. It was also good for the no lifers, because they could snipe low buyouts and ninja bid as something expired.

Using xyz is just a poor man's auction house. I list my shit for 10 Exalted, knowing that I'd probably be happy with an offer of 8. Why not just let me throw it up in auction format with a minimum bid of 7, where it would end in 24 hours?

The 45 minute back and forth trade headache and the archaic trade channels filled with scammers and "OMFG BRO I GOT THIS SHIT. IS GOOD ROLL. IS GOOD. YOU BUY? YOU WANT? YOU BUY. YOU BUY." should have died in the 90's. Going into a grocery store and arguing for 30 minutes with an associate about how much a loaf of bread costs or what currency they're willing to take wouldn't be fun irl, just like it's not fun in video games.

I think that how the trading now works with the stash tab page is good enough to be honest . Playing the game is way more fun and the game should be a farming game as nr 1 priority imo . In d3 ah days flippers played the ah game of d3 even more than actually playing the game and i hope it dont turn out like that in poe too. Why should people not even playing the game manipulate the prices of items for the other playing community of poe , it just dont feel right and fair.

When it comes to d3 ah in particular , it was people with 50 - 100 + accounts with gold farming bots using gold increase items . They also flipped items in the ah . They sold gold for real money and some could even make a living out of it ( yeah crazy ) . Many of these people didn't even play the game at all . The biggest mistake blizzard did was to make another auction house too the real money ah is the biggest reason the economy and game was crap.

I have mentioned this another post too but i say it again : Blizzard was very ambitious to earn a lot of money on d3 , the first version of d3 when the game was very hard blizzard was manipulating droprates of certain items on a daily basis , because they wanted us to use real money as many of us as possible . I can understand the buisniss part of this was profitable for them but the result was people got upset because all this made the game boring to play . Self found was impossible ( for 99 % of the player base i would guess )and forcing us to use the ah . the whole thing was a mess . So both blizzard and flippers/botters destroyed the game . In the end Josh mosqueira replaced jay Wilson ( then we doubled it guy )and saved the game . Imo josh overcompensating the players for the ah period and now legendaries rain from the sky . self found is viable now in d3 . But trading in d3 now is very limited .


So in poe we have a simular ah as d3 had. So its very important that ggg can control the ah and the economy and botters must be removed permanently . A real money ah addition must never happen , this is the main reason the ah was a failure with d3 . An ah is great for quick trading when it is so many different ways to customize our heroes . The part that the other guy must be online to trade the item with is imo unnecessary . if the game becomes like d3 ah without the real money ah part i wouldn't mind it . Lets be real when we trade we dont say much more than thank you gl hf its not a special thing . The poetrade part with currency is probably a bad thing for this game , many casual traders use the currency ratio from that web page and this can be exploited , this part should be removed imo to keep the econmomy as fair as possible for the whole playerbase . But anyway i am content how it is atm . content not happy about how good it is .

The 3 biggest point i would say to you ggg .

1 . it was the real money ah and that blizzard couldn't handle the botting problems that screwed them and games like this both poe and d3 is games that needs an ah . The meet face to face thing is unnecessary in poe imo . The not real money ah was pretty well made in d3 and an ah like that in poe wouldn't change anything but only makes it easier since seller didnt have to be online .

2. never allow an bot to enter this game . It really does a lot of damage to games like this . And poe is just as vulnerable as what d3 was so please dont let that destroy this game .

3. Poe trade s currency ah can potentially do damage to this game , This can manipulate the economy . Maybe adjust currency drops if it escalates i dunno . But atleast keep an eye on it and respect what it potentially can do to the game .

Anyway the stash tab shop thing is a huge upgrade of what it was so i am very happy with this upgrade to the game .

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nGio wrote:

The problem with D3 wasn't the auction house, it was the RMAH.

No, the problem was the terrible itemization. Pretty much all classes and builds wanted the same thing: main stat, vitality and resist to all, and if the slot allowed it as much crit and/or attack speed as possible. So, each item slot basically had predefined "best-in-slot" gear a'la WoW, and nearly all legendary items were completely useless until a much later patch when they became the opposite - best in slot for most purposes. Itemization killed D3, the auction houses merely rushed the inevitable crash.

You just can't have a working economy when there's only a handful of items people want.

This would not happen in PoE, due to the immense diversity of items and the wildly differing requirements of builds. The only valid reason why we're not getting an in-game auction house is botting, and I still think that's a weak excuse. Anyway, poe.trade + public stash tabs is pretty much a working auction house already, just requires a manual extra step really. I still find it hilarious that everyone loves what we have, but so many hate the idea of an AH. ;)

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Ceri wrote:

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nGio wrote:

The problem with D3 wasn't the auction house, it was the RMAH.

No, the problem was the terrible itemization. Pretty much all classes and builds wanted the same thing: main stat, vitality and resist to all, and if the slot allowed it as much crit and/or attack speed as possible. So, each item slot basically had predefined "best-in-slot" gear a'la WoW, and nearly all legendary items were completely useless until a much later patch when they became the opposite - best in slot for most purposes. Itemization killed D3, the auction houses merely rushed the inevitable crash.

You just can't have a working economy when there's only a handful of items people want.

This would not happen in PoE, due to the immense diversity of items and the wildly differing requirements of builds. The only valid reason why we're not getting an in-game auction house is botting, and I still think that's a weak excuse. Anyway, poe.trade + public stash tabs is pretty much a working auction house already, just requires a manual extra step really. I still find it hilarious that everyone loves what we have, but so many hate the idea of an AH. ;)

Yes very true haha , main stat , vitality , all resists , crit chance , crit damage , attack speed was a example of a perfect glove for example .

Now its better though , you got more different skill damage and elemental damage boost stats to compete against that now . And some other stuff like area damage boost skill cooldown reduction etc . it has changed a lot since then , but poe has better itemization i agree exept the chaos damage conversion that they are fixing now .

One thing though if ggg implements a ah ingame and botting can get access that way ? i rather have the ah like it is right now .

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Devonor wrote:

Now its better though

No it's not, it's even worse now. Every item slot has basically 1 candidate for any given build. There is no loot hunt in D3, you just grind for the items required to complete your build, then you're done gear-wise (if you don't count the concept of hunting %-age improvements on existing gear as exciting, that is). It's a travesty, and a real shame because gameplay-wise, D3 is awesome.