About "we don't want trading too easy" in the last PODCAST

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ScrotieMcB wrote:
No, this is exactly the effect of the real-world economy on real people. You might farm in PoE, but I very much doubt you farm in real life. The real world economy is all about minimizing DIY and encouraging niche specialization.


Working a job is "farming."


-VG-
Invited to Beta 2012-03-18 / Supporter since 2012-04-08
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DAYLEET wrote:

self found is the 1% of the 1%, they are the hardcore players of the hardcore players. Don't confound people who don't want the current hassle of trading with true self-found people. See how trading exploded when it was made a wee bit easier with trading tabs.


I kind of see it as the opposite. I'm more casual and I play almost entirely self found. Why? Because trading is a PITA metagame, and I don't have time for that. It's a hassle, and it seems that only hardcore players with a lot of extra time on their hands are able to trade for all their gear or even get to the point where they can do that.

Besides, the *really* casuals won't even know about POE.trade...

Granted, I do trade on occasion, but it's never something I look forward to, and usually it's because someone offers an item and isn't interested in haggling prices for an extended period of time.


-VG-
Invited to Beta 2012-03-18 / Supporter since 2012-04-08
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VideoGeemer wrote:
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
No, this is exactly the effect of the real-world economy on real people. You might farm in PoE, but I very much doubt you farm in real life. The real world economy is all about minimizing DIY and encouraging niche specialization.
Working a job is "farming."
No, it's not. Earning a wage from an employer is a (repeating) sale/purchase agreement and requires social interaction. The real-life situation analogous to ARPG farming is literal, agrarian farming - making everything you need, self-found, instead of buying it from anyone. The entire point of the real-world economy is to distance people so far from having to DIY their own necessities that your typical person literally never farms. If you thoroughly apply the real-world economic model to an ARPG, the result is roughly the same.

IRL, we want this, because it allows specialization of labor and trivializes several problems which would arise otherwise. In a game, we want players to actually interact with the environment (as well as the community, but not exclusively with the community) and actively strive to prevent the trivialization of challenges.

Oh and by the way: the view that time spent trading isn't time spent playing the game, is just as silly as the view that time spent at a computer in a cubicle isn't work.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Apr 30, 2016, 3:06:02 PM
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
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VideoGeemer wrote:
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
No, this is exactly the effect of the real-world economy on real people. You might farm in PoE, but I very much doubt you farm in real life. The real world economy is all about minimizing DIY and encouraging niche specialization.
Working a job is "farming."
No, it's not. Earning a wage from an employer is a (repeating) sale/purchase agreement and requires social interaction. The real-life situation analogous to ARPG farming is literal, agrarian farming - making everything you need, self-found, instead of buying it from anyone. The entire point of the real-world economy is to distance people so far from having to DIY their own necessities that your typical person literally never farms. If you thoroughly apply the real-world economic model to an ARPG, the result is roughly the same.

IRL, we want this, because it allows specialization of labor and trivializes several problems which would arise otherwise. In a game, we want players to actually interact with the environment (as well as the community, but not exclusively with the community) and actively strive to prevent the trivialization of challenges.

Oh and by the way: the view that time spent trading isn't time spent playing the game, is just as silly as the view that time spent at a computer in a cubicle isn't work.


I suppose we may simply disagree here. In PoE you "earn" currency by farming, doing repeated tasks just to accumulate currency. This is exactly what working a job is (some jobs require interaction, sure, others do not. Some jobs are literal farming, others are not). I don't know what you mean by "sale/purchase agreement."

I don't think we can use the "having to find everything you need" analogy, because in a computer game we also need the machine, connection speed, peripherals ... all of which you can't get from farming within the game. Seems more like how we need more than what we can get by working a job. However, we CAN buy what we need with money, just as we can trade for what we need with farmed currency. So on that level the analogy holds but supports my perspective.

I get what you mean about specialization and all that, but it just means that PoE is a game and we don't have specialized jobs, unless you count those who scam or do specific trades involving Izaro or whatever.

Time spent at a cubical CAN be work, but that doesn't mean one is necessarily working while they're sitting there. That depends on the job description, Just as trade = play depends on the definition applied by the players in question. Some will say it's still playing the game because you're in the game doing something, others will say that playing the game =/= simply having the game running.

*shrug*


-VG-
Invited to Beta 2012-03-18 / Supporter since 2012-04-08
Last edited by VideoGeemer on May 1, 2016, 1:05:06 PM
Harrumph... I'll go along with the devs thinking and do my part to make sure that "We don't want GGG to make revenue too easy".

I don't want "too easy" or "too hard" but "just right". Too easy is TL2 and too hard is PoE. Somewhere in between these two extremes is my sweet spot. Unfortunately GGG is in a "Kobayashi Maru" position and there is nothing that GGG can do to please everyone. That's where Cadiro Perandus came in to ease the gear starvation situation and now GGG is about to give him the boot from Wraeclast and next league will be PoE: The Hunger for Gear Game or PoE: The Starvation Simulation. Either way it'll be a dark ages summer.
"You've got to grind, grind, grind at that grindstone..."
Necessity may be the mother of invention, but poor QoP in PoE is the father of frustration.

The perfect solution to fix Trade Chat:
www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2247070

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