SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Perq wrote:

What if YOU are the things you accuse others to be?

Come on Perq you showed such promise a while ago, taking the ad hominem road again?

So if what Turtledove said was applying to us : we mindlessly attack and bash on the labyrinth content so that GGG would look favourably towards us?

You understand how ridiculous that sounds? The contradiction in that is so great that it would put even goe's posts into shame. It also has "mindlessly" there that DOES NOT fit, which by any means if you can support do it, cause all i see from our side (besides some extreme comments) are supported by facts and observation, arguments.

Attacking the character and bashing on the comments rather than trying to rebutall the points on those posts and make solid arguments shows character vice, lack of creativity and messed up social skills. Nothing on its own is bad or something to be ashamed of, but trying to debate when you clearly cant shows, and only makes one seem like a fool.

Im really sorry you had to succumb again, but i cant pity you anymore you choose/like to get rebuttaled and humiliated.


On topic : Im asking from the people who find some merit in the suggestion to either vote on the poll linked in the OP or post here and the other labyrinth threads. GGG listens to their community, you can make a difference and force a change. If you care about the game at least do something dont stay neutral and just stare.

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Turtledove wrote:

I'll take your rude foul language post as an indication that you no longer are able to discuss the issue rationally.

I honestly expected better from you Turtledove.

Goetzjam did a pretty good job of explaining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias in simple terms. That's just in the last two pages.

I'm honestly surprised he's still willing to patiently and rationally discuss this.


p.s. Heh, he even responded to this ridiculous bullshit:

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MisterER wrote:

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You gave a link to some strawpoll, so I looked it up, and there wasn't as many people there, as you claimed. So your based on a strawpoll makes little sense.

Please show us there are a lot of people liking the lab, like a hundred time more that the dislikers, and then maybe your presence here will make a sense, because for now it doesn't.

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You gave a link to some strawpoll, so I looked it up, and there wasn't as many people there, as you claimed. So your based on a strawpoll makes little sense.

Then give us a strawpoll showing the opposite ? Or maybe you just can't because you know its wrong ?

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Even if all of the people who doesn't like the Lab would post in one thread, what difference does it make? What if thread with everyone who likes the Lab was bigger? Lol.

Why you ask for something when you already got the answer ?

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What is the point of that sentence, exactly? :V

The point of your presence here ?

FREE ASCENDANCY POINTS! NO FORCED LAB!

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Turtledove wrote:

You are plainly wrong, even contradicting yourself. On the one hand you state that "The straw pool means nothing." Then later you admit that it does have some meaning. You assert falsely that there is no relationship between people browsing the forums and the general population. The people browsing the forums is after all a portion of the population. The situation regarding straw polls is exactly as I stated it.
"While it is true that not being a random sample for the straw poll sample means that it is not the best representation of the full population, it does not mean useless. What it means is that caution must be used when interpreting the results."
I presented a cautious interpretation of the poll showing 53% of the people dislike labyrinth. We could be even more cautious and take the ridiculous position that all 201 votes rating the labyrinth as the worst should be discarded. Then it works out to be 277/612 = 45%. That is STILL 45% of the people saying that they dislike labyrinth. Sorry Geotzjam, the numbers don't lie, that is STILL a very significant portion of the people.

The last two paragraphs is simply your opinion and guess as to what GGG will decide, even though you try to present them as hard fact. What you seem to ignore is the obvious fact that GGG wants people to like PoE and to have fun when they play PoE. If they can make a simple change that significantly would improve those two important considerations then they would typically make that simple change.

The straw poll is a sampling of the PoE user base, plain and simple. It is not a random sample. Since it is not a random sample, one must use caution when interpreting the results. It is irrational to claim that it is useless. That is not the way statistic sampling works. Irrationally refusing to accept this, I believe is exposing one's own bias. So, let's discuss the potential bias in the poll a little more. The only potential bias voiced is that people looking in the feedback and suggestions forum are going to have a greater inclination to have some gripe. If this gripe was related to the labyrinth then that might skew the straw poll. There are also going to be people that like the labyrinth that are in the feedback and suggestions forum in order to "defend" the labyrinth. This would skew the poll the other way, but, I'll grant that it would likely be to a lesser degree and so to be cautious we'll ignore this. The question is how we might use the poll in a cautious manner. Let's assume that half of the people rating the labyrinth as worst is the amount of skew, then all, and finally all the people rating it the worst and all rating it the second worst. This last two, I believe, eliminates far more than what the straw poll skew would represent but let's see.

59% dislike labyrinth is directly from the poll 1-5 dislike versus 6-10 like (479/814 = 59%)
53% dislike labyrinth is half of the 1's plus 2-5 versus 6-10 (378/713 = 53%)
45% dislike labyrinth is 2-5 dislike versus 6-10 like (277/612 = 45%)
40% dislike labyrinth is 3-5 dislike versus 6-10 like (226/561 = 40%)

So the 40% figure is assuming that all people voting in the straw poll that voted worst, i.e., a 1 and next to worst, i.e., a 2, were people looking in the feedback and suggestions forums just to complain about labyrinth and we over cautiously just eliminate their opinion entirely. That would still mean that 40% of the people dislike labyrinth. Which is a very significant percentage of the PoE player population that dislike labyrinth.

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Turtledove wrote:

That would still mean that 40% of the people dislike labyrinth. Which is a very significant percentage of the PoE player population that dislike labyrinth.

No, that just means that 40% of the people who gave enough of a shit to vote in said poll dislike the labyrinth.

I doubt I'm the only one but this is how it works for me...

*opens thread in new browser tab* nope, just another sexcaliber poll...*closes browser tab*

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

That would still mean that 40% of the people dislike labyrinth. Which is a very significant percentage of the PoE player population that dislike labyrinth.

No, that just means that 40% of the people who gave enough of a shit to vote in said poll dislike the labyrinth.

I doubt I'm the only one but this is how it works for me...

*opens thread in new browser tab* nope, just another sexcaliber poll...*closes browser tab*

Exactly he keeps thinking the poll means anything when its in a complaint thread about the lab, you know a place where naturally people would go to complain.



I mean look at this forum, there are people here that like various aspects of the game and criticize other aspects, but anytime anyone likes or accepts what the game does its "white knighting" or "just defending anything ggg does" That simply isn't the case and I haven't seen a single person here that just praises GGG and doesn't offer any constructive criticisms, at least not that browse regularity.

Then you have OP which just makes comments like "why aren't you playing your precious lab", which has nothing to really do with the discussion at hand its just an irrelevant jab as to why am I not enjoying the game if I like the lab so much.


idk how many times people have to tell you turtle, you can't take a poll that is specifically targeted at one audience and apply it to a larger scope as if it were fact, because it simply isn't the case.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

That would still mean that 40% of the people dislike labyrinth. Which is a very significant percentage of the PoE player population that dislike labyrinth.

No, that just means that 40% of the people who gave enough of a shit to vote in said poll dislike the labyrinth.

I doubt I'm the only one but this is how it works for me...

*opens thread in new browser tab* nope, just another sexcaliber poll...*closes browser tab*

No, sorry you are wrong. For the figure you describe it would be 59% disliking labyrinth not 40% disliking labyrinth. The modified overly cautious figure for disliking labyrinth is 40%.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

That would still mean that 40% of the people dislike labyrinth. Which is a very significant percentage of the PoE player population that dislike labyrinth.

No, that just means that 40% of the people who gave enough of a shit to vote in said poll dislike the labyrinth.

I doubt I'm the only one but this is how it works for me...

*opens thread in new browser tab* nope, just another sexcaliber poll...*closes browser tab*

No, sorry you are wrong. For the figure you describe it would be 59% disliking labyrinth not 40% disliking labyrinth. The modified overly cautious figure for disliking labyrinth is 40%.

*facepalm* Yeah this is pointless. I don't know what you're talking about, I just used the percentage you threw out there hence why I quoted just that part. The point I was trying to make is that none of your figures are correct because the poll you're referring to is absolutely meaningless.

Good luck with your agenda, I'm outta here. :)

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Shovelcut wrote:

*facepalm* Yeah this is pointless. I don't know what you're talking about, I just used the percentage you threw out there hence why I quoted just that part. The point I was trying to make is that none of your figures are correct because the poll you're referring to is absolutely meaningless.

Good luck with your agenda, I'm outta here. :)

So he takes the poll and then "trims down the results" himself and thinks he can apply that to a larger group of people.

FailFish