SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Shredzilly wrote:

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Emphasy wrote:

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Don't understand why "lab lovers" can't accept our "lab haters" point of view. Why is it so hard to understand that we really dislike this content which was pushed without any testing or feedback and therefore we are trying to provide some alternatives? That is IF GGG will reconsider current Lab which I would hope they do at some point (I am not placing my bets though). I am sure that it was said many times before but I recon if Lab was introduced on the same basics as Atziri there wouldn't be a single complain. Can't do it, find it unbearable, not bothered? Perfectly fine, you can just skip it and it won't affect your character in any way.

The thing is, the same could be said about basically every part of the game. I'm still not very font of ActIV and I have to do it every time. I hate exspecially daresso, because for some builds he can be very unfair at this point in the game, while Malachai is a joke after all the nerfs he got. And in difference to the Lab I can't progress without doing that. So I usually do Kaom first, to get a higher level at Daresso, do the Normal Lab afterwards and then I do Daresso, which makes him a lot easier. Of course some builds have no issue at all with him, but exspecially the last phase he is way too fast for characters at that level and you either outlast him or he kills you. Of course it is simplified because you can just permanently port in and out of the fight, which however is a terrible design.

Izaro however has a really good design. You can easily skip setups you don't like because they rotate daily. You can wait a bit longer if you don't want to deal with him and gather some more tools for you character (like more movespeed). Due to the mostly fixed design you can even lookup the layout, although that is not necessary, because you know which areas are deadends by the name of the zone, although it could help with shortcuts.

And of course there could be other ways to ascend. However they need to be inbalance with the lab. If they require less time, they have to be harder, a simple Arena fight would do that. Harder than the Lab but less time consuming. But again it isn't something high on priority, because adding content that basically has the potential to invalidate existing content isn't a very high priority, exspecially considering that GGG doesn't feel that there are many issues with the lab, exspecially considering that one lab run is removed with 3.0 as it seems.

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Chris said it is good to have "Divisive Content" a statement which I strongly disagree with. I rather have content which makes players unite and not fight over it. In the end, we are all players that are clearly very passionate about PoE, we should stand together and not divide into lovers/haters camps.

The Divisive comment was more targettet and the uber lab or getting enchants in the normal one. IE doing it over and over as an alternative to maps. And they want people to find their own endgame thing to do. Leveling a character in itself is a divisive thing already. A lot of players hate leveling a character in general regardless of lab or not, honestly starting on the beach and walking so terrible slow and hitting single enemies... I hate it too.

If we would want to remove divisive things we would have to remove Hardcore first, because it is divisive. The same would go for temp leagues, we would have to roll them into standard and we basicaly would switch gamemode in league intervalls. The lab is far less divisive than that, because most people that don't like it just get through with it and walk away... the same I do with Daresso or A4 in general.

While it could be said about alot Parts of the Game not a single Issue is as discussed as the Lab.
There is no other Thread with 325 Pages, no other Topic with 630 individual Accounts not liking something.

Divisive Content is the Nemesis for something that is supposed to be entertaining, if People stop playing a Game because of Divisisive Content and you don´t care about that as a Developer, then either you are bathing in Money, you are not seeing the Game as a Business or you are not capable to create Content that is so good that nobody will complain.

In a perfect Scenario you create a Game everybody likes.

Why should Hardcore be removed for the sake of Divisisive Argumentation?
If you don´t like perma Death you can just avoid it, play the exact same Content but slightliy different in the Outcome of a Death in Standard.
You have a Choice here.
If you want Ascendancy Points you have NO Choice, you have to do the Lab.

Daresso fits in the Game per se, it is a BossFight, if you enter with a level 100 Char on normal you can take a bath whike standing there and not die.
If you do that in the Lab while standing on Traps and have no Lab Runner Build you see the Sign in the middle of the Screen when you come back from your quality bathing Time.

If someone wants to buy something while you are at Daresso you tell the Customer " 1 sec " and you are ready for the Transaction in about a Minute.
If that happens in the Middle of the Lab, you tell him " 1 Sec" and after 10 Minutes, if you are fast, ask him again if he still needs the Item and hope that he doesn´t found something else in this time.

If you got a DC at Daresso, you just log back in, most of the Path is still cleared, Daresso at the Health you left him and you just continue to smash him.

If that happens in the Lab...you know what you have to do.. Great Fun, I can tell you..

I could go on , you know...but that is all mentioned on the first Pages of this Thread.

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Fruz wrote:

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Shredzilly wrote:

Divisive Content is the Nemesis for something that is supposed to be entertaining, if People stop playing a Game because of Divisisive Content and you don´t care about that as a Developer, then either you are bathing in Money, you are not seeing the Game as a Business or you are not capable to create Content that is so good that nobody will complain.

In a perfect Scenario you create a Game everybody likes.

What ?

Do you realize that "liking a game" is a purely subjective thing and that there is literally not a single game that everybody like ?
I'm so fucking glad that PoE is not one of those game that is just aiming at attracting the biggest possible crowd and has decision that will give obstacles, and frustrate players at some points.

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Emphasy wrote:

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Chris said it is good to have "Divisive Content" a statement which I strongly disagree with. I rather have content which makes players unite and not fight over it. In the end, we are all players that are clearly very passionate about PoE, we should stand together and not divide into lovers/haters camps.

The Divisive comment was more targettet and the uber lab or getting enchants in the normal one. IE doing it over and over as an alternative to maps. And they want people to find their own endgame thing to do.

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I understand a lot of the community doesn't like the labyrinth. This is the thing that I hear...while the people are vocal who don't like it, is only a small portion of the players. Many are happy to go through it as an interesting thing in the game, many people really hate it. So this to me isn't the end of the world. It's ok to have divisive content in the game. Right, we don't want to water stuff down until everyone's ok with it.

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I get a lot of emails asking for a new method to get ascendancy points that bypasses the labyrinth. Maybe that's something we'll do in the future, right. We're not closed to the idea. But it's not something we'll do in this expansion [Prophecy].

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Fruz wrote:

GGG intended from the very start to create a game for hardcore gamer ( that casual gamer can enjoy of course, they just need to handle their expectations for it ), I guess felt that it had started to derail to much to them, and BAM there is the lab.

PoE might have become much bigger than they thought, so when they release some content that require some preparation / thinking ( since now most people just copy paste fotm builds I guess ... ), no wonder some complain.
Now would have those player joined at the start ? ( And were more the targeted original crowd of GGG ) We will never now.
Might be that if the game had been more easy close to the start and before, some people that were looking for a hardcore experience would not have supported, who knows ...


Anyway, good feedback is always welcome, unfortunately, apart from the OP that has been edited many times, most of the good feedback of this thread has been sunk under pages of not really useful content imho.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

GGG intended from the very start to create a game for hardcore gamer ( that casual gamer can enjoy of course, they just need to handle their expectations for it ), I guess felt that it had started to derail to much to them, and BAM there is the lab.

PoE might have become much bigger than they thought, so when they release some content that require some preparation / thinking ( since now most people just copy paste fotm builds I guess ... ), no wonder some complain.
Now would have those player joined at the start ? ( And were more the targeted original crowd of GGG ) We will never now.
Might be that if the game had been more easy close to the start and before, some people that were looking for a hardcore experience would not have supported, who knows ...


Anyway, good feedback is always welcome, unfortunately, apart from the OP that has been edited many times, most of the good feedback of this thread has been sunk under pages of not really useful content imho.

It is true that there is little of value in the hundreds of pages. So what? If you don't like it then don't read it. Guess what mine and your posts are both in those hundreds of pages. What it means it that people love PoE. What it means is that most of the people posting in these pages dislike labyrinth and would rather play PoE to earn ascendancy points, not some trap game play that is boring, irritating, tedious, and not fun to play.

edit: Don't like act4? Too bad, start another thread about that. This thread is supposed to be about Labyrinth.

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Jgizle wrote:

Just pointing out this is how POE will be in the future based on Chris Wilsons vision.

Poe will have 1 difficulty with several acts. Having watched State of Exile 53 the upcomming removal of an in game difficulty will not be cruel difficulty. Since Chris did specifically say that. Since there is no way they would remove normal difficulty as normal is to teach players the mechanics of the game, it is now essentially confirmed merciless will be removed in 3.0 if they were to actually remove 1 difficulty. However Chris did say they are more likely to drop to 1 single difficulty than to two difficulties.

I am not exactly sure where the info about a difficulty removal came from, but this is what can be concluded based on what Chris has said.

As such obviously the amount of pointsbyou gain will change in the future. At some point in the future you will get 6 points from doing lab 1 single time, and the last 2 from uber lab. Thats a great improvement for those who dont like lab. Especially when the first lab can be outleveled no matter what the difficulty will be in the future.

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Jgizle wrote:

Poe will have 1 difficulty with several acts.

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Shredzilly wrote:

Why should Hardcore be removed for the sake of Divisisive Argumentation?
If you don´t like perma Death you can just avoid it, play the exact same Content but slightliy different in the Outcome of a Death in Standard.
You have a Choice here.

If you want Ascendancy Points you have NO Choice, you have to do the Lab.