SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Jgizle wrote:

I still think the best solution that pleases everyone is simply changing trap damage to flat, or reducing trap quantity in general, or both.

Less traps with less damage total in a short period of time should make progressing through lab significantly faster for those not built specifically for lab, and even faster for those who are.

It is the most simple solution that can be implemented in a day as a compromise for all parties involved.

I absolutely reject the idea of Ascendency Points being changed elsewhere. Do note that all balance changes are intended for Act 5 gameplay. With act 5 comes the removal of a difficulty (probably cruel) and as such earlier suggestions are already planned to be implemented albeit in a different manner. With 2 difficulties that means first 2 labs give 3 points and uber lab gives last 2. This means 1 less lab run as well making it less tedious for those who simply dislike it.

A combination of the changes above should be sufficient enough to please 90% or more of the community. People who already enjoy lab will only enjoy it more with the above changes. Those who dislike lab will dislike it less with the above changes. You cant make all content enjoyable for every one. That results in a flawed design because what we want is not always best for the game.

I want people to enjoy lab. Not at the expense of the system already in place. The system is perfect as is. Some minor tweeks to traps will improve the experience for everyone but in my opinion is not neccessary and falls under the "quality of life" improvement category.

If you guys have suggestions unrelated to portals and moving of AC points that is what we want to hear. Lab can not work as intended with any methods of leaving the lab in place, including anything log out related, as this allows log out macros to be used.

In short we want lab to be free of cheese mechanics, and help is a requirement if one is unable to do it themselves. This encourages cooperation, even if it is paid for. Being unable to use vaal skills more than once or twice is a key mechanic to ensuring Izaro stays strong and difficult without near BIS gear. Even as a ranged character BIS gear will not save you as Izaro powered up can still 1 shot you. This brings mechanical fights to a new level that makes Malachai and Dominus a joke. The only superior fight being Shaper despite the possibility of useing cheese mechanics in shaper fight.

This is a hot topic issue because it is different. People dislike change. Change is always met with some form of negativity as people dislike adapting to new mechanics or changes in pre existing gameplay. This is why GGG already knew ahead of time some people would dislike Lab. The fact is however that the amount of people theorized to dislike lab is out of proportion. Any game company is aware when a large portion of their playerbase dislikes something and they make it aware.

We have seen this in many games in history. Destiny with its outrageous layering of RNG on top of RNG, Wildstar with its boring repetitive content and mods with a buy to play model changed to free to play to save the game from extinction. Then theres the Division with a complete remake of everything in the game from the ground up with its newest update. Theres Diablo 3 with the removal of AH, increased Legendary drop rates, constant changes to existing Legendary items as well as new ones, and constant changes to class set rewards.

When there is a major issue with a change the company will make it known. People wonder why there is no development manifesto or topic of discussion by GGG on the Lab. The simplest reason is that Lab does not need fixing. It is not broken, and is not an issue that needs solving. Its just an aspect of the game a minority dislikes as expected by GGG before they even released it.

You may never enjoy lab, maybe you will. Regardless eventually you will accept it for what it is, or simply quit. There are far larger issues in this game that need fixing or improvements that people have complained about for literally years. I mean look at how accepting people have become of the attrocious trade system. Now when ever people try to make suggestions on improving it theres a community who will fight back and say it is fine as is when clearly it isn't. They have been denied these improvements for so long that they have become delusional and accepted the fact that the trade we want in POE is never coming. The same will happen with the lab haters. We just need to give it time. The new generation wont even know the difference. Its the problem with being a veteran.

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Jgizle wrote:

Good job another useless reply where you ignore the facts and make no attempt to make an argument for your case. Why do you even post in this thread. You never add anything to this thread. Instead you repeat the same things over and over, none of which makes a case for your opinion. Wheb ever any one makes a valid argument you pretend they said nothing at all, because you know you yave no point at all. So best just to stop now.

And you're adding anything of value? All you do is tell people to pay up or quit. Please explain how that is useful?

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Jgizle wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Sorry, you can make such a list if you're that interested. While I made the list of threads, the list of posters in support was originally built by Zaludoz. A list of posters that thinks labyrinth has problems makes sense to me because many people have said that there is just a small handful of players that dislike labyrinth. The list disproves this assertion. A list of posters in support of labyrinth wouldn't even make sense to me for many reasons.

So you are under the assumption this thread proves otherwise? This thread simply proves how small this minority of lab haters are. Whether you want to believe it or not, more than 70k players play POE actively every day. Just that fact alone proves how small the community of lab haters are.

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Jgizle wrote:

You can say, "oh my thread is representative of the entire community" but you would be wrong. People rarely go to the forums to complement things they like about POE. This pretty much means this thread is representative of most of the majority that dislikes it. I said this a long time ago and ill say it again. Unless this thread has 10k + different people saying they dislike lab, you will forever be a miniscule minority that really the majority could care less about. Considering you have less than 10% of that we the people saying "lab haters are a minority" will always be an accurate statement until you prove otherwise. Until now you have yet to do so. Instead you reply to every one with the exact same thing and think you are making a good point when you are not.

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Jgizle wrote:

The essence of your hate is "lab is boring". Unfortunately that is not a problem that requires fixing. It is simply a trope of all video games. Anything repetitive is boring. Maps are boring, lab is boring, leveling new characyers is boring, using the exact same pathing in passive tree is boring, using the exact same items and skills is boring. In essence POE is boring. You make POE fun in your own personal way, not the other way around.

Since you refuse to make new characters because of lab there is nothing left for you to do but level existing characters, farm currency, and blow regrets on existing characters to try new builds. Either that or simply quit and go to a game more like the playstyle you desire, Diablo 3.

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Jgizle wrote:

Please for the love of god quote me anywhere where I said 70k Love lab. Do it right now. I said 70k people play POE every day. You are the one claiming I said that and then replying to a statement you made up yourself out of thin air.
If 70k+ people play POE (which is a fact) and less than 1k people have said they dislike lab, that means you are a minority. Simple as that. Take it for what it is. Do not read into it and try to change words around.

Keep dreaming because there is no issue to fix. You wont see GGG doing anything in OP ever.

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Jgizle wrote:

Please for the love of god quote me anywhere where I said 70k Love lab. Do it right now. I said 70k people play POE every day. You are the one claiming I said that and then replying to a statement you made up yourself out of thin air.
If 70k+ people play POE (which is a fact) and less than 1k people have said they dislike lab, that means you are a minority. Simple as that. Take it for what it is. Do not read into it and try to change words around.

Keep dreaming because there is no issue to fix. You wont see GGG doing anything in OP ever.

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Zaludoz wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

Please for the love of god quote me anywhere where I said 70k Love lab. Do it right now. I said 70k people play POE every day. You are the one claiming I said that and then replying to a statement you made up yourself out of thin air.
If 70k+ people play POE (which is a fact) and less than 1k people have said they dislike lab, that means you are a minority. Simple as that. Take it for what it is. Do not read into it and try to change words around.

Keep dreaming because there is no issue to fix. You wont see GGG doing anything in OP ever.

The only reason to say "70k people play each day and don't come on a message board saying they hate it" implies your attempt at making it mean the opposite; that those approximately 69k like the labyrinth, since they have not explicitely made the effort to tell people they don't like it.

By no stretch of the imagination would I ever agree that everyone who doesn't post their dislike of the labyrinth is a lab lover; at most, they are labyrinth tolerators or they are indifferent, or don't think posting their experience with it will influence any change, so why bother? That's as far as I'd take those numbers.

Anyway, that's my fed-up-with-same-old-same-old-arguements post for the day. The only posts that really matter on this feedback section are each person's individual experience with the game, their suggestions for change, and the responses from GGG.

(that's the extent that pertains to the quote above)







I've skipped this league (yeah, free mtx wasn't enough to draw me back), and I'm not feeling the desire to play any time soon anymore, despite all my theorycrafting that is blocked by this monstrosity of bad game design. I do frequent the message boards, but only to watch for positive change. So, telling me to quit if I don't like it... well, I basically already did, but as soon as there is acceptable change, that will change too.

I personally don't care about anybody else's experience with the labyrinth being opposite of mine, because my suggestions for change would not negatively impact anybody else, while making it enjoyable for me to play again.

Basically, those who tell people to withhold their feedback or stop making suggestions that would make the game more fun for them are wasting their time. Each person's experience with the game is an important bit of feedback for GGG. How GGG takes that feedback and acts on it is up to them, but EVEN 1 person who has found 1 thing that could be changed to improve the game experience is a minority that should be *listened* to.

The extent of reply from GGG going beyond the actual changes made to the game, as in actual post responses, increases the feeling of connection between players and developers of an online game, and makes them feel like their experience matters. No responses does the opposite, and distances themselves. This sort of issue feels like one they should be replying to in a more meaningful manner than we've seen thus far. (and other players of the game have taken it upon themselves to speak for GGG in a hilarious fashion, IMO. This does not benefit GGG)

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Zaludoz wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

Please for the love of god quote me anywhere where I said 70k Love lab. Do it right now. I said 70k people play POE every day. You are the one claiming I said that and then replying to a statement you made up yourself out of thin air.
If 70k+ people play POE (which is a fact) and less than 1k people have said they dislike lab, that means you are a minority. Simple as that. Take it for what it is. Do not read into it and try to change words around.

Keep dreaming because there is no issue to fix. You wont see GGG doing anything in OP ever.

The only reason to say "70k people play each day and don't come on a message board saying they hate it" implies your attempt at making it mean the opposite; that those approximately 69k like the labyrinth, since they have not explicitely made the effort to tell people they don't like it.

By no stretch of the imagination would I ever agree that everyone who doesn't post their dislike of the labyrinth is a lab lover; at most, they are labyrinth tolerators or they are indifferent, or don't think posting their experience with it will influence any change, so why bother? That's as far as I'd take those numbers.

Anyway, that's my fed-up-with-same-old-same-old-arguements post for the day. The only posts that really matter on this feedback section are each person's individual experience with the game, their suggestions for change, and the responses from GGG.

(that's the extent that pertains to the quote above)








I've skipped this league (yeah, free mtx wasn't enough to draw me back), and I'm not feeling the desire to play any time soon anymore, despite all my theorycrafting that is blocked by this monstrosity of bad game design. I do frequent the message boards, but only to watch for positive change. So, telling me to quit if I don't like it... well, I basically already did, but as soon as there is acceptable change, that will change too.

I personally don't care about anybody else's experience with the labyrinth being opposite of mine, because my suggestions for change would not negatively impact anybody else, while making it enjoyable for me to play again.

Basically, those who tell people to withhold their feedback or stop making suggestions that would make the game more fun for them are wasting their time. Each person's experience with the game is an important bit of feedback for GGG. How GGG takes that feedback and acts on it is up to them, but EVEN 1 person who has found 1 thing that could be changed to improve the game experience is a minority that should be *listened* to.

The extent of reply from GGG going beyond the actual changes made to the game, as in actual post responses, increases the feeling of connection between players and developers of an online game, and makes them feel like their experience matters. No responses does the opposite, and distances themselves. This sort of issue feels like one they should be replying to in a more meaningful manner than we've seen thus far. (and other players of the game have taken it upon themselves to speak for GGG in a hilarious fashion, IMO. This does not benefit GGG)