SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Jgizle wrote:

Lab lovers are not scared of change thats ridiculous. Lab lovers are the ones who have embraced the change.

You may be correct, but available evidence suggests otherwise.

In the absence of evidence, a reasonable guess would suggest otherwise as well, given the primary appeal of the Lab.

Balance in this game, like many other games, is based on two things:

1. Power / profit (for skills and items / areas, respectively).
2. Popularity.

Too much of either, and things get nerfed. I think you can see where I am going with this.

Many people criticize GGG for being reactive instead of proactive while balancing. I would be even more specific, and criticize them for making adjustments to #1 as a solution to problems in #2, without fully understanding the nature of why a skill, item, or area is unpopular.

The Labyrinth is only one of a number of examples illustrating this unfortunate tendency. It just happens to be a lot more visible (and thus controversial) because of its attachment to the Ascendancy classes.

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Jgizle wrote:

Lab lovers are not scared of change thats ridiculous. Lab lovers are the ones who have embraced the change. Further change is not the issue. the issue is the suggestions themselves which create more problems than the people suggesting them think. It is very easy to make selfish suggestions without seeing the big picture simply because you are frustrated or dislike something.

Lab lovers have accepted the changes of the past. Specifically, the changes that gave them the labyrinth. There is no need to fear future progress and change. When GGG finally provides an alternative way outside labyrinth to get ascendancy points, your beloved labyrinth is not likely to be harmed. There is no need for you to be selfish and frustrated that such a change may happen in the future. It is a reasonable way for GGG to improve PoE to be more inclusive and fun for a greater number of people with minimal risk of damaging your dear beloved labyrinth.

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Turtledove wrote:

Lab lovers have accepted the changes of the past. Specifically, the changes that gave them the labyrinth. There is no need to fear future progress and change. When GGG finally provides an alternative way outside labyrinth to get ascendancy points, your beloved labyrinth is not likely to be harmed. There is no need for you to be selfish and frustrated that such a change may happen in the future. It is a reasonable way for GGG to improve PoE to be more inclusive and fun for a greater number of people with minimal risk of damaging your dear beloved labyrinth.

Wanting developpers to dedicate their time into providing a "solution" ( using quotes here because for this word to actually be correct, it would imply that there is a problem, which there isn't ) instead of giving actual new content is also pretty selfish.

And it's not a problem of changing the lab, it's a problem of not making the point too easy to acquire ( which it most likely would, because then you could maybe just overlevel it and faceroll it, or buy it without the need to go through any risky content whatsoever, depending on that other way ).
Well it's not like it will actually happen I guess, so ...

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Lab lovers have accepted the changes of the past. Specifically, the changes that gave them the labyrinth. There is no need to fear future progress and change. When GGG finally provides an alternative way outside labyrinth to get ascendancy points, your beloved labyrinth is not likely to be harmed. There is no need for you to be selfish and frustrated that such a change may happen in the future. It is a reasonable way for GGG to improve PoE to be more inclusive and fun for a greater number of people with minimal risk of damaging your dear beloved labyrinth.

Wanting developpers to dedicate their time into providing a "solution" ( using quotes here because for this word to actually be correct, it would imply that there is a problem, which there isn't ) instead of giving actual new content is also pretty selfish.

And it's not a problem of changing the lab, it's a problem of not making the point too easy to acquire ( which it most likely would, because then you could maybe just overlevel it and faceroll it, or buy it without the need to go through any risky content whatsoever, depending on that other way ).
Well it's not like it will actually happen I guess, so ...

Of course it is only a problem for people that do not like the labyrinth. Sorry, I did not mean to imply that it is a problem for people that like the labyrinth. Perhaps you were not aware that there are people that consider the labyrinth to be boring, irritating, tedious and not fun to play? So for those people it is a problem and so for those people it would be a solution. Developers will provide new content (I believe) for the challenge required to earn ascendancy points and so the assertion that such a thing would be harmful to people that enjoy the labyrinth would not be true! It would be a win-win all around for everyone, especially for GGG and the PoE community.

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Deliverme wrote:

For me the solution is simple: Design the lab so that traps lead to nice chest rewards, and non trap areas lead to Izario. I like the chests there, but would be okay if they removed those and our reward was simply ascendancy points and enchantment.

I absolutely despise the traps, and do not play an ARPG to see how well I can dodge a spiked dough roller.

Added the suggestion in the "Labyrinth Rework Ideas" spoiler in the OP

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Pyrokar wrote:

Did anyone suggest something about a vendor recipe for asc points? For example: Selling 5 offering to the godess + an orb of augmentation lets you get your ascendancy points for the difficulty you sell them at.

Something along that line could be reasonable and economy stimulating.

Added the suggestion in the "Alternative Ascension Methods" spoiler in the OP.

Thanks both for the suggestions, hope more people can help that way.

We are now at 19 unique suggestions that one way or another will help us improve the current system. Keep up the good work people.

Why do people think vendor recipes or the exchange of any form of currency for ascendancy points is a good idea? Can you buy passive skill tree points? No so why is AC any different. It would be entirely unfair to give a recipe for AC points and not give one for passive points.

AC points and passive points are literally the same thing, just one has a limit of 8 while the other is over 100.

I said earlier it would be reasonable to add a quest line specifically for Lab that rewards a book that gives 1 AC point when used. This means when act 5 comes you get all 8 points without doing Uber Lab at all on labs that can be out leveled. In short this means AC points are obtainable by every one in full by out leveling lab in general. This leaves Uber Lab for those who want to make profit and excludes those who dislike it.

Dunno if this has been suggested yet, but, it makes sense to me that 'ascendancy' points are logical to award when one 'ascends' to the next difficulty. So, grant 3 when a player beats normal difficulty, 3 more when they beat cruel and the last 2 when they beat merciless. When the game creates act V and goes to two difficulty levels, give 4 and 4 or some such.

Bump up loot quality a bit for clearing lab and between enchants and loot, folks still would have a reason to run it.

My 2 cents.

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Reuel21 wrote:

Dunno if this has been suggested yet, but, it makes sense to me that 'ascendancy' points are logical to award when one 'ascends' to the next difficulty. So, grant 3 when a player beats normal difficulty, 3 more when they beat cruel and the last 2 when they beat merciless. When the game creates act V and goes to two difficulty levels, give 4 and 4 or some such.

Bump up loot quality a bit for clearing lab and between enchants and loot, folks still would have a reason to run it.

My 2 cents.

This is a bad suggestion. Making it to the next difficulty does not qualify as ascending.

Likewise any method of getting points out of lab is dumb. These are not regular passive points. One of these is worth several normal passive tree nodes. These are far more powerful. You must complete content as strong as the nodes you unlock. Izaro is the strongest in the game with the exception of maybe shaper. Beating him is what qualifies as ascending.

The only other option is allowing people to get AC points by killing shaper. Lets see how many people would rather do that fight than Izaro.

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Jgizle wrote:

The only other option is allowing people to get AC points by killing shaper. Lets see how many people would rather do that fight than Izaro.

That's actually not a bad idea. For the final two points, anyhow.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

The only other option is allowing people to get AC points by killing shaper. Lets see how many people would rather do that fight than Izaro.

That's actually not a bad idea. For the final two points, anyhow.

Yes, if you could skip the crappy endgame trials as well.