Labyrinth - discrepancy between Life and ES builds, a huge issue

bump

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鬼殺し wrote:

I first did it successfully as an ES/Life hybrid. The quicker ES recharge saved a lot of flask usage, and the life pool was good for the few times I screwed up and let a trap get through my ES. I imagine it'd be really hard as full ES, but you have Vaal Discipline for emergencies and no end to mobs to feed you souls. The trade-off for the choice to go ES is much quicker, much stronger recharge, whereas life builds have to manually heal up with flasks or rely on much weaker regeneration options.

The fact that I'd probably never do it as a CI character likely reinforces your feedback.

Quicker and stronger recharge? You do know that it's useless because it does not recharge when you take damage, right? You don't have any way to heal while traversing a trap. Life builds can take 4 instant flasks with them x3 uses each and heal themselves multiple times when taking damage.

I think it's obvious ES builds are severely handicapped with traps.

I've a life based char and an hybrid one, and i don't have big problems. Actually the hybrid one makes izaro easier...

I'll keep bumping this until devs acknowledge that there's an issue.

The biggest issue is when you're in a prolonged trap area with traps that move with you. A single spinning thing can hit you many times when it's moving with you and if you're a life build you just pot through it. So from a zerging standpoint life builds have a more carefree time.

Builds that have a faster base movement speed that can outrun spinning traps also have a much easier time. I'd prefer it if there was a damage cooldown from one trap (i.e. if one trap entity couldn't damage you more than once within a specified timeframe), because sometimes those things do a lot of burst damage depending on your relative speed and direction of travel.

It's also somewhat hilarious playing a trap avoidance game in an environment where your visibility scales based on your life/ES total. If GGG really wanted players to time movement properly they'd need to add significantly more illumination to some of the trap areas, i.e. fixed light sources, independent of player life.

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Vhlad wrote:

The biggest issue is when you're in a prolonged trap area with traps that move with you. A single spinning thing can hit you many times when it's moving with you and if you're a life build you just pot through it. So from a zerging standpoint life builds have a more carefree time.

Builds that have a faster base movement speed that can outrun spinning traps also have a much easier time. I'd prefer it if there was a damage cooldown from one trap (i.e. if one trap entity couldn't damage you more than once within a specified timeframe), because sometimes those things do a lot of burst damage depending on your relative speed and direction of travel.

It's also somewhat hilarious playing a trap avoidance game in an environment where your visibility scales based on your life/ES total. If GGG really wanted players to time movement properly they'd need to add significantly more illumination to some of the trap areas, i.e. fixed light sources, independent of player life.

it is a stupid place that punish tank build over glass cannon.

Trap damage should have been a smaller % of life/ES + a flat damage on top of that. That will give glass cannon a little bit more hard time.

Shouldn't "Zealot's Oath" fix the problem? I mean shouldnt health-pots regen ES with this one active? (I dont know since I never used it)

And IF it works that way ... taking a pot or 2 into the lab shouldnt be that much of a problem.

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Berglmir wrote:

Shouldn't "Zealot's Oath" fix the problem? I mean shouldnt health-pots regen ES with this one active? (I dont know since I never used it)

And IF it works that way ... taking a pot or 2 into the lab shouldnt be that much of a problem.

Flasks are recovery, not regeneration. So Zealoths Oath does nothing. Vaal Discipline though is pretty much an ES Pot, same goes for the Occultist node. Since they reduced the recharge delay from 6 to 3 seconds it is fairly easy to set off your recharge, however the recharge is a lot slower now, however if you have the Occultist node it won't stop if you take damage after it initially started.

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The biggest issue is when you're in a prolonged trap area with traps that move with you. A single spinning thing can hit you many times when it's moving with you and if you're a life build you just pot through it. So from a zerging standpoint life builds have a more carefree time.

Well... then... uhm... don't do that. Yes chars with very few life can easily just pot through this... however they likely just die to Izaro. And for chars that have a decent HP Pool (so depending on the build from 3,5k to 5k) they would have to use a lot of potion charges.

I really don't see any issue with that, it's not as if those traps are hard and CI chars can't beat it. It is quite the opposite, they have a fairly easy time with traps too, just not that easy as the others (of course unless Vaal Discipline or Occultist). There aren't even that many traps in the whole labyrinth and a single Vaal Discipline is enough to cross most of the trap sections entirely.

And of course you could add a debuff to traps that reduce potion efficiency by 75% so make them less efficient, but again it wouldn't really matter all that much, it would just make stuff like Vaal Discipline even better, which again is unavaible to life builds.

Well, looks like this won't be fixed until 2.3. See State of Exile 33:43 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwi6U7MojDQ

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Qarl wrote:

Environmental traps in the labyrinth now calculate a player's effective life differently for determining damage. This was previously the total of a player's maximum life and Energy Shield. Now Energy Shield counts as 60% of its value for this purpose. Only Energy Shield covering life is counted. This was determined to be the best ratio applicable to the wide variety of Energy Shield based builds that exist.

Thank you. :)