Labyrinth - discrepancy between Life and ES builds, a huge issue

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Lacceh wrote:

@stdcall

Yes, HC is meant to be played with care. I could argue that not having access to lifesaving flasks because you're playing ES is pretty careless...
Whether or not you're able to do Lab as CI, slowly or quickly or whatever the hell, is completely beside the point... We want a level playing field for all.

can i have a 10k life pretty please?

sorry. all you say is that you cannot bruteforce traps just like life players (supposedly) can do. spike traps deal % damage and bleed damage (CI CAN remove bleeding damage if you have a right flask). other traps are a) harmless if approached with care b) deadly even when mashing pots if playing stupid

it is a L2P issue, not CI issue

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sidtherat wrote:

can i have a 10k life pretty please?

Nice, quoting me out of context. I said that clearly INSIDE THE LAB. Doesn't matter if you have 1k life or 10k life, when traps deal PERCENTAGE-BASED damage. What matters is whether you have Life or ES for EHP, because they take the same % damage, but you can only refill one of them with flasks easily. Next time think before you post.

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sidtherat wrote:

sorry. all you say is that you cannot bruteforce traps just like life players (supposedly) can do. spike traps deal % damage and bleed damage (CI CAN remove bleeding damage if you have a right flask). other traps are a) harmless if approached with care b) deadly even when mashing pots if playing stupid

No, what I said was GGG's design philosophy was to implement %-based trap damage to prevent bruteforcing your way thru with level/gear/whatever. Seriously, do you even brain, bro?

Anybody can remove bleed damage, irrelevant point.

Actually, spike traps are easier to deal with in general, plus they can be mitigated by armor and phys dmg reduction AND Staunching, while the other traps cannot - I know because I've tested it. Shows you little clue you have.
Still, it's not relevant which trap is deadlier than the other. Whether you're ES or Life, you take the same amount of damage. As Life you can hit your flasks to get out of trouble, as ES you cannot. End of story.

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sidtherat wrote:

it is a L2P issue, not CI issue

No, it's an issue of inconsistency. [Removed by support]

Here's something that will help your lightning-warp mages: use a 2.21:1 aspect monitor, or set your resolution to something matching that ratio.

You get more zoom-out. You can lightning-warp further.

10k ES 8% Regen. no probs at all. it still sucks tho.

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鬼殺し wrote:

I first did it successfully as an ES/Life hybrid. The quicker ES recharge saved a lot of flask usage, and the life pool was good for the few times I screwed up and let a trap get through my ES. I imagine it'd be really hard as full ES, but you have Vaal Discipline for emergencies and no end to mobs to feed you souls. The trade-off for the choice to go ES is much quicker, much stronger recharge, whereas life builds have to manually heal up with flasks or rely on much weaker regeneration options.

The fact that I'd probably never do it as a CI character likely reinforces your feedback.

Not just that, the entire labyrinth trap damage scale ONLY base on % seems to punish more on tank build over glass cannon. I find that terribly insult tank build

I kinda wonder are they trying to push us go low life+High regen+ good flask build?

IMO, Trap calculation damage should have been a little bit more complex, it should have been a combination of scaling % of hp/ES + a FLAT deduction. This should at least give some advantages of being a tank build.

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and I LOL at people talking about faster start of ES. He clearly have no idea about ES. I have an auramancer that take the only faster start node in the skill-tree + a heartbreaker dagger, I even take all the ES nodes + recharge nodes around witch and scion. That witch is still no where near as good as my life build character on traps.

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Lacceh wrote:

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stdcall wrote:

https://youtu.be/fBw2f9k4FtE
true it was close once but in HC I wouldn't have yoloed it like that

thanks for the upload, it proves my point exactly.
10:00 - it's not really that you 'yoloed it', you made a mistake. you will make mistakes while playing HC, too. even if you were to play perfectly, or close to perfect, shit will happen. you had ONE misstep and nearly died, you were below 10% EHP. had you been Life there, you could've just hit your flasks, easy done.

this is what we are saying... Life flasks let you get away with mistakes easily, while as ES you are punished severely. it's so obvious, can you not see it?
how hard you're punished or how difficult it is, is completely irrelevant, the problem is the lack of consistency.

I did yolo'd it because in hardcore I would've searched for another way probably. This trap is actually hard, for sure the hardest in this lab because there was no safe place on the entire screen.
Yes there is a discrepancy but I don't see why is this an issue. Lab is a part of the game just like maps, bosses, etc is. Why there can't be a discrepancy. The problems CI has in the lab is not nearly enough to declare it unplayable

Lacceh, you have my support.

Did lab with life and with other low life+es (AND YES IT HAD ALL RECHARGE NODES).

with life character i had no issues. And playing low life when i stepped on spikes i lost ~90% of my hp in room full of traps, no where to recharge, one more mistake and I'm dead.


Its really amusing to see this question debated. Its just unbalanced. Imo ES should be capable to tank at least 2 spike traps.

@Sidherat

About having 10k life, you do have 10k life, you hp pool + 3 flasks should give you more than 10k life

I got life based and ES based characters.
I don't see any difference in labs and i'm serious, i'm (edit) here to troll.
Just use your movement skills for an easy access to safe spots in Mario Trapworld ways.

Edit : i'm NOT here to troll, ty quotedudenexttome

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Lhansk wrote:

i'm here to troll.

I can see that.