Labyrinth - discrepancy between Life and ES builds, a huge issue

@Real_Wolf

We are not trying to make them work the same. Can you read? I've already stated, they are 'balanced' outside of Lab because of certain mechanisms, but these do not apply to Lab, which was obviously designed with life flasks in mind.

Get faster start of ES recharge? This shows me that you're clueless, because you won't even get to that point to recharge anything. You will die in about 2 seconds flat to one of the % traps, and you won't have no flask to get you out of trouble.
Even if what you said worked, why should I change my passives/gear significantly just so I'm not at a severe disadvantage?

The whole idea of the traps(talking from GGG design perspective) was to make it more 'skill-based' and prevent brute-forcing thru them. In other words make it more equal for everybody, requiring you to play well regardless of gear. Except that they only ran tests as Life with flasks, and forgot about ES.

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Lacceh wrote:

The whole idea of the traps(talking from GGG design perspective) was to make it more 'skill-based' and prevent brute-forcing thru them.

The current meta is just 'alteration orb a flask until it heals a lot of health and spam potions while walking through the traps' Totally agree with you.

@ComradeSovietPavel

Yes, thanks for your post, good one.
We need to hammer this issue until they acknowledge the problem and fix it.
It is so disappointing to see them overlook basic things like this, time and time again... Sigh.

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Lacceh wrote:

@Real_Wolf
Except that they only ran tests as Life with flasks, and forgot about ES.

I see no where that they didn't test with ES. As I said I also know someone who just runs through things like the burning ground and such, on a CI character. He starts healing in something like 1 second or 2 seconds. He is using the stupid broken quiver though that gives that ridiculously fast start of ES recharge.

I disagree that it is balanced around life flasks, I tend to not use mine unless I mess up badly, and even then I can usually tank one or two traps fine

What are you even saying?
You can disagree but you're still wrong.

And you've just admitted that life flasks are what you fall back onto. Which is the whole point here.

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Lacceh wrote:

Yea yea. Link me your youtube/livestream where you run Lab as CI in HC. Until then, don't even bother posting here.
It is obviously broken, this isn't even up for a debate.

I'm currently leveling a hc char but it is not CI yet. But HC is meant to be played with care, are you seriously saying it is hard to do lab slowly as a CI?

Here is the SC run in 11 mins
https://youtu.be/fBw2f9k4FtE
true it was close once but in HC I wouldn't have yoloed it like that

sorry for potato quality didn't really have time to mess with the settings

The question is not whether or not it is doable.

Yes, with enough time CI characters CAN do lab.



The question is: Why are ES characters expected to have the same playstyle as life characters?

A life character can equip life potions and tank traps for upwards of 60 seconds.
With really good flasks, maybe up to 90 seconds.
ES characters cannot do that.

This is a bit of a problem. Traps are literally nothing to life characters. LITERALLY NOTHING.
Traps ARE a problem to ES characters. Either make traps even harder to life characters, or make it easier for ES. As long as they are the same difficulty.




My suggestion: Make life based traps AND ES based traps.
Life traps doing 75% damage to life and 40% to ES
ES traps doing 55% to life and 80% to ES

This makes players more careful around their type of trap, therefor "testing" each playstyle equally.

@stdcall

Yes, HC is meant to be played with care. I could argue that not having access to lifesaving flasks because you're playing ES is pretty careless...
Whether or not you're able to do Lab as CI, slowly or quickly or whatever the hell, is completely beside the point... We want a level playing field for all.

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stdcall wrote:

https://youtu.be/fBw2f9k4FtE
true it was close once but in HC I wouldn't have yoloed it like that

thanks for the upload, it proves my point exactly.
10:00 - it's not really that you 'yoloed it', you made a mistake. you will make mistakes while playing HC, too. even if you were to play perfectly, or close to perfect, shit will happen. you had ONE misstep and nearly died, you were below 10% EHP. had you been Life there, you could've just hit your flasks, easy done.

this is what we are saying... Life flasks let you get away with mistakes easily, while as ES you are punished severely. it's so obvious, can you not see it?
how hard you're punished or how difficult it is, is completely irrelevant, the problem is the lack of consistency.

Just disable flasks outside of Izaro fight. Everybody loses. Balance achieved.

They should pay me for this stuff.