Labyrinth - discrepancy between Life and ES builds, a huge issue

Hi.

I have a really big concern about the traps in Labyrinth which do percentage-based damage.
This seems incredibly punishing to ES or hybrid builds, simply because you do not have emergency life flasks that refill your pool.
I looked at livestreams and Youtube search and haven't found a single non-life build doing Labyrinth. It is just way too dangerous, one misstep and you're dead in 1 second, no life flasks to save you.

Outside of the Labyrinth, Life vs. ES is 'balanced' by some mechanics like kiting, higher total ES pool than life, utility flasks instead of life flasks, etc. But this doesn't apply here, obviously.

Honestly, this is really broken right now, could you please look into it?
We need a solution to this problem. Perhaps reduce trap damage done to Energy Shield, or something else.

Thank you for reading.

Yes, there are some helpful things like Vaal Discipline, but that requires: a gem slot(which I don't really have as a summoner), it lasts 3 seconds, 48 souls for ONE use. Yes there are some items(or passives) with faster start of recharge and such, but these are usually not very feasible to obtain. Having to change your build significantly just to be able to do Labyrinth for your Ascendancy points I think is not fair, while you can simply use flasks as a Life build.

I have a feeling that nobody at GGG tested Lab as a full ES character. :/
If you try it or see somebody try, you will see how bad it is. And I'm on HC so it is out of the question. Again I think a reduced trap damage to ES would be a good band-aid fix for now, because right now it is incredibly unfair.

Thanks for your understanding.

PS: the typical ES recharge doesn't really come into play, since you're basically going thru a series of traps and reaching safe zones in-between them. it's as if the whole thing was designed in mind with having HP flasks to fall back on.

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鬼殺し wrote:

I first did it successfully as an ES/Life hybrid. The quicker ES recharge saved a lot of flask usage, and the life pool was good for the few times I screwed up and let a trap get through my ES. I imagine it'd be really hard as full ES, but you have Vaal Discipline

To quote from Oblivion: "Stop right there, criminal scum!" [j/k in case you are sensitive]

You obviously don't know how rare a drop Vaal Discipline is. Oh. I see. "you have vaal discipline"

I have 10 or so characters, half of which are level 70 or above, and I recently had to BUY vaal discipline for my CoC Discharger, to try and get properly optimized for Atziri runs.

Meanwhile, I've got 10 Vaal Glacial Hammers, 7 Vaal Lightning Strikes, 8 Vaal Summon Skeletons, 2 Vaal Grace... you get the picture.

so in my thousand-plus hours play time, I never once yet dropped a Vaal Discipline. Yet you think that ppl starting in a new league will just "have" it in the appropriate time to run the labyrinth in normal... Interesting.

@joachimbond

While you're right that it's rare, it's not really unobtainable you could trade for one. But that's not the main problem here, hence me trying to approach this issue with a more general argument.
Which is that you shouldn't need to go to such lengths just so you can go and get your ascendancy points as a non-life build.

bump... GGG can you take a look at this? seems broken.
have a look at your data... everybody and I mean everybody plays Life because of traps in the Lab. there are very few ES users and they respecced after doing Lab...

Agree but don't expect anything to be done about it.

"LOL Git Gud, Scrub!"

I see absolutely no issue personally as a CI witch
I only use flame dash as a movement skill and it takes 12-15 min to do a merciless run, I skip all silver doors and caches though

The only trap that is remotely dangerous to me is the spike one. Basically the only time I have to use brain inside a lab, apart from boss fights. Also staunching flask really helps

Yea yea. Link me your youtube/livestream where you run Lab as CI in HC. Until then, don't even bother posting here.
It is obviously broken, this isn't even up for a debate.

In all honesty, I always see people complaining about CI saying that it can't regen....

Its pretty simple, get faster start of ES recharge, and you can recharge in between bouts of damage. I know of someone who runs through traps (such as spinning blades and the 'on the ground saw blade', because by the time he gets to the next trap area his recharge has started and he is pretty much full again. Try doing that with pots.




Once more, stop trying to make Life and ES work the same. ES is a different mechanic. If you PLAY differently, taking advantage of the benefits of ES over life, then I see no problem. If you try to play the same, then yes, 'herp derp no pots? how do smart'

Labyrinth IS balanced around life and instant healing from flasks that drop from every other mob pack.
Lab IS NOT balanced for ES characters who have no instant ES flasks dropping from every other mob pack.

There are ES based ascendancies, meaning that lab must become balanced for ES as well as life to make sense for balance and for lore. Unless izaro is a dick who hated ES and only wanted life based champions.




Some have said that "stop trying to make Life and ES work the same. ES is a different mechanic. If you PLAY differently, taking advantage of the benefits of ES over life, then I see no problem."
LABYRINTH IS BASED ON LIFE CHARACTERS.
There is no "ES labyrinth" to test ES characters. There is only life labyrinth made specifically to test life based characters. This is forcing ES characters to play as if they were life.




One last time. Labyrinth at the moment is based around testing life based playstyle, forcing ES players to play like a life based character. Labyrinth should also be based around testing an ES playstyle. Labyrinth is basically a "Do you have good health potions" test and has nothing to do with actual playstyle at all. This needs a bandaid or a fix.