Map drop is NOT fine and it is killing the fun

"

Char1983 wrote:

Running maps for half a year, having characters level 94/93/91 while not playing exactly carefully and thus dying quite a bit, never seeing a T15 map and only one T14 map drop, is that intended? That is the question. And the question also is: With lots of people complaining, is their intention to wait until all those people quit?

Why do you think you're entitled to a certain map tier just because you have some characters leveled up to the point where they could theoretically handle the map? I know nothing about your mapping habits but for you to get to those levels and never see one, I'm thinking it's you. There's something you aren't doing correctly.

"

A friend of mine who got to lvl 100 in the flashback event recently moved to D3...

...ya, after grinding like a madman I needed time off too. Grinding to 100 isn't an easy thing, it's time consuming and exhausting. Some people will just pick up and start over, others want to take a breather. I'd be surprised if someone who grinded to 100 actually never touches the game again. At about 90 if you aren't in love you're not continuing.

"

I don't give a shit what GGG communicates on reddit BTW, that is not communication. You cannot expect someone to read reddit. This game has a forum, so they better use it.

So what you got out of 2 dev manifesto links, and me saying they post on here is only that I mentioned the word reddit? You literally ignored every other point about how open with communication because I said your special trigger word? Two dev manifestos and easily hundreds of posts on these forums, you don't think you're communicating because you're ignoring every attempt to communicate. An issue like this is too big to give a quick response is a whiny thread, they'll regroup, discuss options and if change is on it's way it will be a dev manifesto post, which, 2 of, that you ignored, because I said reddit.

Why am I arguing with you? It's circles, technicalities and ignoring main issues. You aren't looking for a discussion, you're trying to just say you win. None of these posts get anywhere, you say the same shit and I just give the same responses more long winded because I assume you didn't understand what I said.

"

And then? Progress ends there. No progress any more. I just ran a 150% IIQ 20% packsize Village ruin with 30% magic monsters and 29% rare monsters. I got a Plateau from a non-magic, non-rare mob. That was it. No other map drops. That is the reverse of progress, which I don't know what it is called in English to be honest.

This is BY FAR the dumbest argument you guys throw around. This entire argument is about leveling up to high levels. If you're doing this, regardless of what tier of maps you're running it's going to take, want to say thousands of maps. I had a white t8 drop 2 t9s, 1 t8 and 3 t7s this morning. I had a 150% IIQ 15% pack size rare unid map drop nothing as well this morning. You know what, NEITHER MATTERS AT ALL. 2 maps out of the 10 I ran this morning, out of the 100+ I ran this week, out of the thousands I will run over the course of the league. I won't remember these drops after I wake up later today, it's meaningless.

If you put everything into one map and it doesn't pay off, stop acting surprised. It's "increased quantity", not "amount of maps that will drop."

"

Besides, I wonder if people will ever stop treating me as if I don't know how to roll maps. There is no magic behind that, and if one would be doing the statistics, spending Chaos on any map below T13 is probably a bad idea anyways.

I've gotten 2 t13s playing casually, running mostly blue maps, hardly touching anything over t11. Again I say, go grind to 100 and force yourself to learn more about mapping then reflect back on how little you actually knew. I had been mapping for 2 years before I really did the grind and thought I knew everything about mapping. Your 6 months and 3 lvl 90s is not going to make you a map god, finding a way to get 1000 maps, keep them all at a relatively high level and afford to roll them all, that will teach you everything you need to know about mapping and I promise you'll see a t15. Havoc got there not doing many bosses, you seem to specifically seek that challenge.

tier9 maps are still 76's....

e: i agree that the required level 80 Rigwald kill is a bit too high

"

Moosifer wrote:

"

And then? Progress ends there. No progress any more. I just ran a 150% IIQ 20% packsize Village ruin with 30% magic monsters and 29% rare monsters. I got a Plateau from a non-magic, non-rare mob. That was it. No other map drops. That is the reverse of progress, which I don't know what it is called in English to be honest.

This is BY FAR the dumbest argument you guys throw around. This entire argument is about leveling up to high levels. If you're doing this, regardless of what tier of maps you're running it's going to take, want to say thousands of maps. I had a white t8 drop 2 t9s, 1 t8 and 3 t7s this morning. I had a 150% IIQ 15% pack size rare unid map drop nothing as well this morning. You know what, NEITHER MATTERS AT ALL. 2 maps out of the 10 I ran this morning, out of the 100+ I ran this week, out of the thousands I will run over the course of the league. I won't remember these drops after I wake up later today, it's meaningless.

If you put everything into one map and it doesn't pay off, stop acting surprised. It's "increased quantity", not "amount of maps that will drop."

Pretty much this. Thus is what everyone QQing in this thread should do:
1. Accept that you'll need to run thousands of maps. Thousands. Running a couple hundred mid-tier maps is nothing.
2. Don't Alch low-tier maps (6 or less).
3. Don't Chisel low- or mid-tier maps (11 or less).
4. Don't Chaos low- or mid-tier maps. Unless you know the map affixes will kill you.
5. Save your currency for nice things.

So far in the maps are good thread ive seen run an uber service and chisel, alc, vaal and add sacrifice parts (and i guess zana mods) parts to sustain a map pool in the higher levels. The amount of trade or even just computer/connection power to sustain either of those options is ridiculous.
And i think thats a big issue poe is fashioned around being elite in some ways but really its not that hard to follow a good guide watch a video on setting up acquisition in 3mins and get a geared character that can progress beyond lvl 90. This leads me to the conclusion that many want to map solo at a higher level and ggg doesnt satisfy this desire. My personal desire is that rolling packsize on maps allows up to lvl 78 maps pretty easily as it was in 1.3 (will some complain just like they did then undoubtedly). This would allow some variation in tileset's while mapping and mean exp doesn't slow down to far.

Now is it as bad as many are making out prob not, with zana showing up and the occasional higher drops of maps say tier 10-12 its ok, certainly not nearly as bad as it was before the buffs in 2.0 (unless you once again had the currency to mod ambush and alteration all the strong boxes for 3 magic mob packs). I did level solo from 93-94 pre buffs and that was really painful.

Shitty map drops are the reason I don't really play that much anymore and why I'm probably not getting any more supporter packs.

Oh well. Thats life, sometimes you just have to move on.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Thus is what everyone QQing in this thread should do:
1. Accept that you'll need to run thousands of maps. Thousands. Running a couple hundred mid-tier maps is nothing.
2. Don't Alch low-tier maps (6 or less).
3. Don't Chisel low- or mid-tier maps (11 or less).
4. Don't Chaos low- or mid-tier maps. Unless you know the map affixes will kill you.
5. Save your currency for nice things.

sometimes i have the feeling ppl just spit out numbers without reflecting what this actually means. so here is a small math lesson for you.

take "only" 1000 maps and say you need 7 minutes for one which is already quite elite. actually the time is more between 10 and 15 minutes what i have seen here on the forum (the new map recording site). anyhow, this would take you 7000 minutes of "mid-tier maps".

this means:

7000 minutes / 60 = 117 hours

say you invest 4 hours per day in pure mapping time this means you need a whole month (~29-30 days) to finish your 1000th map.

you do realise that this is supposed to be a game and not your daily job?
sometimes i'm not quite sure.

"

Astarte911 wrote:

Yea, because you want an easy peasy lv100 char. Fuck off.

No, I want to have a challenge on the way to 100 that doesn't consist of testing my ability to do something outstandingly boring and trivial without saying "screw this" and going to do dishes, because the latter is more entertaining than the mind-rotting exercise that mid tier maps are when you're at a high level.

"

Im playing video games since im a 14 yo (20 years now). I played a lot of mmos and arpgs and end-game was somehow always gated behind some walls.

I started with computer-based video games when I was 12, and somehow (I don't know how it happened) I'm 43 now. I don't think age matters much, or at least I don't really give a rat's tail how old anyone is, but there is one aspect that relates to this discussion: The older I get, the more aware I become of the value of time, and that every day I have less of it left.

Now, I'm not saying one needs to spend every waking minute productively and all that jazz. I'll leave that to more responsible people who lead more traditionally successful lives than I do. But what I do believe is important (in fact, of paramount importance) is the quality of how you spend time. If I play a video game that enthralls me, that entices me, that excites me, that is time well spent, even if eats up all of my spare time. It's not productive, but it's quality time, and I get something in return: exhilarating entertainment, adrenaline rushes, fist-pumping moments of success.

PoE does that for me, right until you start mapping. Then it turns from engaging, progress-oriented, partly even challenging gameplay into a mindless treadmill where, if you were connected to a MRI scanner, the monitor would go dark.

By the time you are 90, you have a stable build and probably decent gear, and you are ready to tackle cool challenges, do difficult content, explore exciting areas, battle tough monsters ... but wait! You can't! Because all your readiness doesn't do you any good if you don't have maps!

It's like laying in your bed, all happy, ready to have an enjoyable night with whatever gender of partner you're into and ... nobody comes. You can run low level maps, and do the equivalent of that in your bed, but it's the same you've done hundreds of times and it is pretty forgettable, non-challenging with no risk of messing it up, and really, it's just not going to feel rewarding.

Isn't it off that the game is more challenging at level 60 than at level 90? Shouldn't it be fun and difficult and exciting to do content when your character is mostly done? That is all we worked toward, to become powerful and strong, but all we get is boredom and tedium because the challenging content (that's also needed for progress) is gated behind some RNG chastity belt. It's totally upside-down.

You see, it's not about getting to 100. It's about getting to 100 and having fun while doing it. For all I'm concerned, they could double the required XP from 90 to 100 if in exchange I could run T12+ maps consistently. What a fantastic experience that would be to actually log on and fight difficult mobs that test my skills and EARN my progress! That is what games are meant to do: to entertain you, to fill your time with excitement and fun, and give you a sense of reward.

There is nothing fun or rewarding about running low or mid tier maps when you are 85+. This is the whole point about this and other threads: People want fun, not boredom. We play games because we want to get away from that. That is why we are gamers.

I must question why you convinced yourself that the difference between t11 maps and t15 is so gigantic?

I don't think the difference is known to be honest (actual value's of monster damage/defense) however from experience i can tell you that it's almost redundant on 95% of the map.(aka all white/blue/rares)

What actually happened is power creep to a point where content is redundant once certain thresholds have been attained. And the speed at which those are attained have only gone up.

The end-game is defacto a thread-mill and as such, if your not into that, boring.

That's true for t1 maps, t11 and t15.

I question the logic behind "the highest content will challenge my character that face-walks a mere 3/4 tiers below it"

I think withholding this answer from players by GGG is a logical thing, since it keeps the appearance alive that there is still challenging content left, while in fact that's not the case.

Now, if you merely want to experience the boss-fights, which is ultimately what the higher maps are then you could make a suggestion for that.

If that's the case then i would propose the tier drop system to stop at 12.

And force all higher maps in that tier 12 pool. Maybe add a rare currency type that only drops in t12 that allows you to push a map up one tier.(with a hard-floor of tier 15)

Arguably though, it's a lot of work for GGG and it creates imbalance, since boss fights are ultimately designed to reflect their respective tiers.

Peace,

-Boem-

Okay, Boem, you got me. An exaggerator is me.

But hundreds. Definitely hundreds.

Actually, i don't give a fuck.

Peace,

-Boem-