PoE already shrinking/dead?

"

GameQB11 wrote:

"

Alienchild wrote:

I think it was a big mistake to release this game as beta, but not wipe characters at the end of beta. This creates a misleading impression that this is not really a beta release and therefore less tolerance for issues.

I can certainly vouch that was my impression, as I don't usually play beta games because of issues that can detract from gameplay.

So now we have a beta that attracts new players, only to have new players trashed by the rabid fanboy base that POE already has, for almost any suggestion that new players bring.

I know I would have gone into this with a very different, and more tolerant mindset if this was a conventional beta that wiped characters at the end.

wha? your logic hurts my brain.

just wipe your character when "beta" is over. problem solved.

Its no ones fault but your own to assume something labeled "beta" is not a beta.

I am curious - how many games (and what are their names) do you know of that went from beta to final release, but did not wipe all the game characters?

What you basically accuse me of, is not learning from past experience. In my experience, if a game is not wiping its characters, the company must feel that the game is sufficiently advanced and bug free that they can do so. They feel it is production ready.

I thought that GGG felt that about their game, based on my experience with umpteen zillion previous game releases.

The beta tag is a bit of a cop out and is a modern development in the software industry. It allows the company to "justify" bugs and lack of features because it is "beta".

Hope your brain hurts a bit less now. :P

.

I think its normal.
When a new game got hype, everyone want to try it.

Then, after a testing period, some people realize the game is not for them.
Its natural and makes a lot of sense, so I see no problem here.

I honestly prefer a small community of nice people, rather than thousands of guys complaining because they don't like the game.

"

Alienchild wrote:

I am curious - how many games (and what are their names) do you know of that went from beta to final release, but did not wipe all the game characters?

Several free to play MMOs I've played slid from Open Beta to 'Full Release' without a wipe, actually. Allods Online is a simple example.

Path of Exile is following that model. A lengthy closed beta to ensure the game is ready for public consumption, then an Open beta wherein the real test is made and passed/failed. After some time, perhaps when enough tweaks are made and more content is ready, the Beta tag will be removed and the game will be considered 'released'.

Character wipes + beta =/= mutually inclusive.

Never once would I assume that either thing has anything to do with the other. The fact that the game is still in beta means its Still in beta, nothing else matters.

"

Charan wrote:

"

Alienchild wrote:

I am curious - how many games (and what are their names) do you know of that went from beta to final release, but did not wipe all the game characters?

Several free to play MMOs I've played slid from Open Beta to 'Full Release' without a wipe, actually. Allods Online is a simple example.

Path of Exile is following that model. A lengthy closed beta to ensure the game is ready for public consumption, then an Open beta wherein the real test is made and passed/failed. After some time, perhaps when enough tweaks are made and more content is ready, the Beta tag will be removed and the game will be considered 'released'.

Interesting. I never played Allods Online. It looked interesting enough but was too cartoony for my tastes.

"

Alienchild wrote:

"

SAKUJ0 wrote:

Most things were to be expected. What was not to be expected that one group would suddenly dominate the whole ladder, gaining what others gained in 10 hours in about 10 minutes. It seems to have frozen the top page of the ladder.

We all know that group play, pretty much trivializes content and all the top ladder people spend 99% of their time in groups. So nothing to see here move one.

In any case, why care about the ladder, it serves no purpose, other than as an indicator of who can spend the most time in a game - really not a statistic I want to associate myself with.


===

I agree. I play against myself and the game not some arbitrary table.

"

Alienchild wrote:

Interesting. I never played Allods Online. It looked interesting enough but was too cartoony for my tastes.

Oh it's a piece of shit pay-to-win WoW Clone, but it fits your criterion for a game that went from Open Beta to release without a wipe.

I suppose there's something to that -- if a game is pay to win, even in its Open Beta phase, then it would be rather unfair to have a wipe any time after the cash shop is opened, wouldn't it?

Curious -- ethics as regards pay-to-win models. Very curious.

"

Charan wrote:

Oh it's a piece of shit pay-to-win WoW Clone, but it fits your criterion for a game that went from Open Beta to release without a wipe.

A little o/t, but...

It's really sad because the game didn't start out that way. Once the game developers started getting money, they sold out to keep their pockets filled. I'm still pretty bitter about what happened, because the original game was quite enjoyable (not perfect, but still enjoyable).

I was around Allods during the closed beta, open beta, and left shortly after the official release, which was when they changed the game design to a pay-to-win model. Yes, they actually changed the game so it would be pay-to-win. It was a shame, because they actually had some interesting game designs.

The last time I logged in, perhaps a few months ago or so, I saw they were selling lingerie (underwear) and quest log slots (so you can have more active quests at once). It wasn't surprising, but just sad to have watched a game sink as low as it did, yet still be around today using the pay-to-win model they were.

Anyways, I'm glad we don't have to worry about that happening with PoE.

I poured far more money into GGG than I would any other game almost as a result of what Allods did to me -- a pair of wings here, an armour set there, oh and look I need these runes just to stay alive at my level....I was so jaded regarding pay to win and free to play that by the time I found GGG and PoE, I was like...I must do everything I can to support this. Everything.

...anyway, no new story there. So while you were a bit off topic, drew, I think there is some returning from that tangent without simply backtracking.

There is a world of difference between 'shrinking' and 'dead'.

This is a natural and expected dropoff, but what might surprise some people is that part of the drop-off is the fact that PoE isn't pay to win. I'm generally not an idiot but I was sucked into Allods so quickly, and before I knew it I'd thrown a lot of cash at gPotato or whoever the hell it was, just because yes, it's a pretty cool game. I didn't mind supporting it a bit. But it wasn't a bit. It was a lot, and all because 'support the game' quietly and irrevocably became 'support my playing of the game'.

Pay to win is insidious but it's also infectious. I've seen so many people post that they'd support the game if it had 'meaningful' microtransactions. What does this mean? Simple: microtransactions that actually affect the gameplay. In other words, pay to win.

Naturally there are other causes for the drop off of population, but I reckon that's one some people don't want to consider.

"

Charan wrote:

I poured far more money into GGG than I would any other game almost as a result of what Allods did to me -- a pair of wings here, an armour set there, oh and look I need these runes just to stay alive at my level....I was so jaded regarding pay to win and free to play that by the time I found GGG and PoE, I was like...I must do everything I can to support this. Everything.

And in PoE you need 90% of your passive points spent in health nodes to stay alive, well I suppose people dont mind that because its free.