What is the point of Ghost Reaver? I feel like with my current setup my life leech is low-to-non-existent. Would I be able to survive without it? I just recently hit 72 and got all my gems in order, my gear is pretty garbage right now so I probably need to shop around/craft some better stuff before I hit the maps.
That's strange, the leech should be really noticable. Are you properly utilizing the Warlord's mark curse?
Oooh, I guess I didn't read the Warlord's Mark correctly. I haven't really done anything solo (just made the character and leveled it 2-3 days ago, so have been chain running Dried Lakes) so I haven't really noticed the life leech, and the stats tab showed 0 so I didn't grab it. I guess I will spec into that later today and give it a try.
If the VP version is the way to go for Guardians and Shaper, Isn't the Marble amulet a bad mix?
Or is the Marble Amulet regen non-vp version stronger than the VP version?
I'm worried about taking VP as Atziri's Promise and Warlords mark are my only source of leach.
While VP is safer for the guardians, ZO is better against the Shaper himself, since most of his damage are degens and you're kiting a lot. Ofc that doesn't mean it's impossible to do it the other way round.
There are pro's and con's to both versions, as described in the guide.
Damage (and thus leech) is increasing a lot when you actually start speccing chaos damage and level your gems to 19+ at level 80+. Until then playing the build is ineed a bit dry.
Nevertheless no need to worry, you just gotta get used to actually standing in the action and getting hit to trigger your cwdt's.
If you are still paranoid for some reason use a life leech gem.
(I should say this before anything else, I'm doing this in a temp league time frame so some decisions may not make sense from a permanent league stand-point. My goal is to get the Shaper and Guardians Challenges done)
My damage isn't great, tooltip is something like 1600 unbuffed in h/o I have not gotten any of the major chaos dmg passives your lvl 97 tree has.
Also, I've gone and taken a 4% reduced mana reserve point beside CI because it's literally along our path. I haven't done the math but I'm curious if it's worth more for people in the 35-40% remaining mana after AA and Disc, then something like a flat or %mana node? (note I'm still leveling my Enlighten gem so I don't get the reserve modifier from that yet.)
I got lucky with a dream fragment, and picked up an eye of chayula because frozen/chilled and stun are a major issue, The avoid stun enchant on the helm isn't enough for me personally, as I've gotten too many close calls with it at t10-11 maps already. Also The enchant isn't cheap at 4 chaos. A cheap eye of Chayula costs that much in ESC right now.
Do you think I need to make any major adjustments if I go for both of those uniques?
I'm able to hit max res with a rare belt+ring. I guess my question is, if going Eye of Chayula, which opts us out of Marble ammy for insane regen, should I maybe go all out on dmg and VP path? What would you do? I could but probably won't get a leach gem unless my passives greatly increase my dmg as I only have a 5link, and I'm not likely to afford a 6l in a league time frame. I am worried if the Chayula and Dream Fragment version will work for guardians and Shaper though.
Currently I do know that even with the ZO version, I was able to tank (one at a time) corrupted 8 mod twinned (prophecy) Chateau Argus. He didn't even require a flask in berserker mode. Cheers again, for the tankiest build I've played to date.
(I should say this before anything else, I'm doing this in a temp league time frame so some decisions may not make sense from a permanent league stand-point. My goal is to get the Shaper and Guardians Challenges done)
My damage isn't great, tooltip is something like 1600 unbuffed in h/o I have not gotten any of the major chaos dmg passives your lvl 97 tree has.
Also, I've gone and taken a 4% reduced mana reserve point beside CI because it's literally along our path. I haven't done the math but I'm curious if it's worth more for people in the 35-40% remaining mana after AA and Disc, then something like a flat or %mana node? (note I'm still leveling my Enlighten gem so I don't get the reserve modifier from that yet.)
I got lucky with a dream fragment, and picked up an eye of chayula because frozen/chilled and stun are a major issue, The avoid stun enchant on the helm isn't enough for me personally, as I've gotten too many close calls with it at t10-11 maps already. Also The enchant isn't cheap at 4 chaos. A cheap eye of Chayula costs that much in ESC right now.
Do you think I need to make any major adjustments if I go for both of those uniques?
I'm able to hit max res with a rare belt+ring. I guess my question is, if going Eye of Chayula, which opts us out of Marble ammy for insane regen, should I maybe go all out on dmg and VP path? What would you do? I could but probably won't get a leach gem unless my passives greatly increase my dmg as I only have a 5link, and I'm not likely to afford a 6l in a league time frame. I am worried if the Chayula and Dream Fragment version will work for guardians and Shaper though.
Currently I do know that even with the ZO version, I was able to tank (one at a time) corrupted 8 mod twinned (prophecy) Chateau Argus. He didn't even require a flask in berserker mode. Cheers again, for the tankiest build I've played to date.
Yeah as I said before, damage will increase a lot above lvl 80.
That differs from every character.
Without any evidence I'd say the 2.4% saved mana from the small Influence node should be better than adding another random mana passive, because the 'intersting' part is unreserved mana, so mana % nodes only have a third of their value... Sorry not a native speaker, that stuff is hard to explain....
If you really wanna know this for your case, calculate yourself. The math is rather simple. Keep in mind that the tree does not take any single small mana nodes though, so that comparison might be flawed.
I'm quite surprised here. You're the first person to actually report having problems with stun and freeze. The last time I got into trouble was a Uber Vaal ball lightning stunlock at the very early stages of the build a year ago, when I hadn't optimized strategy and the build was way weaker. Auxium is a couple chaos and made cold ailments irrelevant. I'm bringing a flask of heat for the shaper fight though, he hits like a truck.
Question for everyone: Did anyone encounter problems with stun and freeze while playing the build? Which countermeasures did you use? Please also report back if there are no problems, so we can gather accurate data. Thanks!
Well you'll lose out on quite some defence, especially es% in the long run if two of your jewellery slots are unique, however the dream fragments also helps with your mana. I have seen people play pretty much all combinations of uniques, there shouldn't be a problem.
I also played the build just fine without the recent marble amulet upgrade. Other than that I can't give any further advice, sorry. Maybe someone else can share his input here.
Generally you can always use a Wither totem if you want more damage. I'll test if it's possible to have WT setup in the weapon swap.
If you make your character page public I might be able to give additional advice.
My Build Compendium: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1634158
Last edited by Legasi on Oct 20, 2016, 10:39:54 AM
(I should say this before anything else, I'm doing this in a temp league time frame so some decisions may not make sense from a permanent league stand-point. My goal is to get the Shaper and Guardians Challenges done)
My damage isn't great, tooltip is something like 1600 unbuffed in h/o I have not gotten any of the major chaos dmg passives your lvl 97 tree has.
Also, I've gone and taken a 4% reduced mana reserve point beside CI because it's literally along our path. I haven't done the math but I'm curious if it's worth more for people in the 35-40% remaining mana after AA and Disc, then something like a flat or %mana node? (note I'm still leveling my Enlighten gem so I don't get the reserve modifier from that yet.)
I got lucky with a dream fragment, and picked up an eye of chayula because frozen/chilled and stun are a major issue, The avoid stun enchant on the helm isn't enough for me personally, as I've gotten too many close calls with it at t10-11 maps already. Also The enchant isn't cheap at 4 chaos. A cheap eye of Chayula costs that much in ESC right now.
Do you think I need to make any major adjustments if I go for both of those uniques?
I'm able to hit max res with a rare belt+ring. I guess my question is, if going Eye of Chayula, which opts us out of Marble ammy for insane regen, should I maybe go all out on dmg and VP path? What would you do? I could but probably won't get a leach gem unless my passives greatly increase my dmg as I only have a 5link, and I'm not likely to afford a 6l in a league time frame. I am worried if the Chayula and Dream Fragment version will work for guardians and Shaper though.
Currently I do know that even with the ZO version, I was able to tank (one at a time) corrupted 8 mod twinned (prophecy) Chateau Argus. He didn't even require a flask in berserker mode. Cheers again, for the tankiest build I've played to date.
Yeah as I said before, damage will increase a lot above lvl 80.
That differs from every character.
Without any evidence I'd say the 2.4% saved mana from the small Influence node should be better than adding another random mana passive, because the 'intersting' part is unreserved mana, so mana % nodes only have a third of their value... Sorry not a native speaker, that stuff is hard to explain....
If you really wanna know this for your case, calculate yourself. The math is rather simple. Keep in mind that the tree does not take any single small mana nodes though, so that comparison might be flawed.
I'm quite surprised here. You're the first person to actually report having problems with stun and freeze. The last time I got into trouble was a Uber Vaal ball lightning stunlock at the very early stages of the build a year ago, when I hadn't optimized strategy and the build was way weaker. Auxium is a couple chaos and made cold ailments irrelevant. I'm bringing a flask of heat for the shaper fight though, he hits like a truck.
Question for everyone: Did anyone encounter problems with stun and freeze while playing the build? Which countermeasures did you use? Please also report back if there are no problems, so we can gather accurate data. Thanks!
Well you'll lose out on quite some defence, especially es% in the long run if two of your jewellery slots are unique, however the dream fragments also helps with your mana. I have seen people play pretty much all combinations of uniques, there shouldn't be a problem.
I also played the build just fine without the recent marble amulet upgrade. Other than that I can't give any further advice, sorry. Maybe someone else can share his input here.
Generally you can always use a Wither totem if you want more damage. I'll test if it's possible to have WT setup in the weapon swap.
If you make your character page public I might be able to give additional advice.
I've changed my character tab to not-private. Before the Eye of Chayula I was wearing the helm that's currently on my character (not gonna change it as a 300 es+ helm with resists is pretty pricey on esc.)
I had issues of WB'ing into a large pack of Blue or multiple rare mobs, and they'd sometimes stun me enough to have me worried. Also a few of my early close calls or deaths came from not seeing Bearers in party play. Each orb would be able to cause a stun animation, which in turn meant I'd get chain reactioned by the entire pack of orbs. Herald of Obelisk packs could also sometimes cause similar issues.
Since the Eye of Chayula and dream fragment, I have had no issues. By level 80 I was able to face tank Uber Izaro. My most recent deaths have been from the mods you've listed to be aware of in the guide. I could skip them but atlas completion requires corrupted rare maps. And at higher tiers I can't just pick up a new map.
Also, I was seriously considering the %es Jewelery but crafting %es on rings costs 2 exalt per craft. I don't have that kind of currency in league. Even without it, the build seems tanky enough. I also dislike micromanagement, so simple stun and frozen immunity seem worthwhile to me. I'll post an update if I manage to take out Guardians and Shaper with my gear.
I've changed my character tab to not-private. Before the Eye of Chayula I was wearing the helm that's currently on my character (not gonna change it as a 300 es+ helm with resists is pretty pricey on esc.)
I had issues of WB'ing into a large pack of Blue or multiple rare mobs, and they'd sometimes stun me enough to have me worried. Also a few of my early close calls or deaths came from not seeing Bearers in party play. Each orb would be able to cause a stun animation, which in turn meant I'd get chain reactioned by the entire pack of orbs. Herald of Obelisk packs could also sometimes cause similar issues.
Since the Eye of Chayula and dream fragment, I have had no issues. By level 80 I was able to face tank Uber Izaro. My most recent deaths have been from the mods you've listed to be aware of in the guide. I could skip them but atlas completion requires corrupted rare maps. And at higher tiers I can't just pick up a new map.
Also, I was seriously considering the %es Jewelery but crafting %es on rings costs 2 exalt per craft. I don't have that kind of currency in league. Even without it, the build seems tanky enough. I also dislike micromanagement, so simple stun and frozen immunity seem worthwhile to me. I'll post an update if I manage to take out Guardians and Shaper with my gear.
Okay, that's very strange, I never had these problems. Are you properly flasking up before engaging the pack? Rumi, Basalt, (Granite), ...? Also keep in mind you're losing out und 70% multiplicative stun avoidance while not casting. You should optimize your gameplay so you have close to no 'downtime' where you are not casting (already hold right click during the WB animation).
If that still doesn't help, keep your distance to packs and kill them from afar.
For sketchy Bearer/Obelisk situations, spam click your Vaal Discipline if you foresee you can't get out, then spam click WB.
Test this stuff without EoC, and if it still won't get better, reequip it.
__________
I don't think you are ready for Guardians yet, you should at least be lvl 90 imo, and then start with Chimera and Mino, because the other two require quite some micromanagement ;)
__________
Afaik es% costs 1ex, and it's definitely worth it on nice rings. Are you playing SSF? Acumulating a bit of currency shouldn't be much of a problem, especially with a mapmod independent bosskiller like this one.
__________
Your charactertab:
Tree: Uh, where exactly are you going? There's a minor node at the phys/chaos wheel, and a few towards VP, while playing the ZO version. Quite the mess.
If you wanna respec into VP, do the fetid pool and crypt quests in all difficulties for refund points. Then respec out of the 10% phys/chaos node and ZO. Use these two points to connect at the lower path to the templar, then respec the 3 points from the upper path. Use these three points to get VP and Coordination. Boom.
Gem setup:
Switch FC gem in shield for Vaal Lightning Trap.
Level up your WM once more.
Main setup: Void Mani is the best dps option, but it also lowers your tooltip and general clearspeed. Switch for Ele Focus. If you really wanna keep it for bosskilling switch Contr Dest for EF. EF has more damage and no crit penalty, so you'll proc Ele Overload more often.
Does the offhand Wither totem work? I forgot to test it :/ If it does, use Faster Casting as 3rd link.
Gear:
is mostly ok. Try Auxium Belt. Your rare belt has an open prefix, for either flask recharge if crit or life.
Flasks: Get a Basalt. Swap for Quicksilver, or if you're going VP, swap for Sulphur.
Divine Base is best for Mana Flasks.
________
In General, if you got some time on your hands, you could systematically read through the comments here. We already discussed stuff like gameplay, unique options and VP vs ZO a lot. Pretty sure you'll learn a few more things to improve your playstyle with this build!
Hope this helps. Good luck :)
My Build Compendium: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1634158
I've changed my character tab to not-private. Before the Eye of Chayula I was wearing the helm that's currently on my character (not gonna change it as a 300 es+ helm with resists is pretty pricey on esc.)
I had issues of WB'ing into a large pack of Blue or multiple rare mobs, and they'd sometimes stun me enough to have me worried. Also a few of my early close calls or deaths came from not seeing Bearers in party play. Each orb would be able to cause a stun animation, which in turn meant I'd get chain reactioned by the entire pack of orbs. Herald of Obelisk packs could also sometimes cause similar issues.
Since the Eye of Chayula and dream fragment, I have had no issues. By level 80 I was able to face tank Uber Izaro. My most recent deaths have been from the mods you've listed to be aware of in the guide. I could skip them but atlas completion requires corrupted rare maps. And at higher tiers I can't just pick up a new map.
Also, I was seriously considering the %es Jewelery but crafting %es on rings costs 2 exalt per craft. I don't have that kind of currency in league. Even without it, the build seems tanky enough. I also dislike micromanagement, so simple stun and frozen immunity seem worthwhile to me. I'll post an update if I manage to take out Guardians and Shaper with my gear.
Okay, that's very strange, I never had these problems. Are you properly flasking up before engaging the pack? Rumi, Basalt, (Granite), ...? Also keep in mind you're losing out und 70% multiplicative stun avoidance while not casting. You should optimize your gameplay so you have close to no 'downtime' where you are not casting (already hold right click during the WB animation).
If that still doesn't help, keep your distance to packs and kill them from afar.
For sketchy Bearer/Obelisk situations, spam click your Vaal Discipline if you foresee you can't get out, then spam click WB.
Test this stuff without EoC, and if it still won't get better, reequip it.
__________
I don't think you are ready for Guardians yet, you should at least be lvl 90 imo, and then start with Chimera and Mino, because the other two require quite some micromanagement ;)
__________
Afaik es% costs 1ex, and it's definitely worth it on nice rings. Are you playing SSF? Acumulating a bit of currency shouldn't be much of a problem, especially with a mapmod independent bosskiller like this one.
__________
Your charactertab:
Tree: Uh, where exactly are you going? There's a minor node at the phys/chaos wheel, and a few towards VP, while playing the ZO version. Quite the mess.
If you wanna respec into VP, do the fetid pool and crypt quests in all difficulties for refund points. Then respec out of the 10% phys/chaos node and ZO. Use these two points to connect at the lower path to the templar, then respec the 3 points from the upper path. Use these three points to get VP and Coordination. Boom.
Gem setup:
Switch FC gem in shield for Vaal Lightning Trap.
Level up your WM once more.
Main setup: Void Mani is the best dps option, but it also lowers your tooltip and general clearspeed. Switch for Ele Focus. If you really wanna keep it for bosskilling switch Contr Dest for EF. EF has more damage and no crit penalty, so you'll proc Ele Overload more often.
Does the offhand Wither totem work? I forgot to test it :/ If it does, use Faster Casting as 3rd link.
Gear:
is mostly ok. Try Auxium Belt. Your rare belt has an open prefix, for either flask recharge if crit or life.
Flasks: Get a Basalt. Swap for Quicksilver, or if you're going VP, swap for Sulphur.
Divine Base is best for Mana Flasks.
________
In General, if you got some time on your hands, you could systematically read through the comments here. We already discussed stuff like gameplay, unique options and VP vs ZO a lot. Pretty sure you'll learn a few more things to improve your playstyle with this build!
Hope this helps. Good luck :)
Thanks for the info. I'm still leveling so I'm not planning to take on the Guardians for another few levels (88-89) The faster casting in my shield is only there because I'm leveling gems to 20 and my weapon switch already has 6 I'm leveling in the background (wither totem, spell totem, etc). It's not staying there, and I didn't have a better link for Vaal Disc that I needed to level to 20. I'll probably end up putting wither totem into my boots for when I'm doing a really hard boss. My tree has a few stray points as I'm still undecided if I want to go VP or respec out of that path and stay ZO.
I'll post an update after some testing when I have the time.
I have a really nice vaal regalia (903 es, resists). Is the damage from the 15 percent chaos conversion and plus 1 fire gems enough to still go with infernal mantle over the regalia?
What do you think about using heretics veil for the curses instead of the cwdt setup?
I have a really nice vaal regalia (903 es, resists). Is the damage from the 15 percent chaos conversion and plus 1 fire gems enough to still go with infernal mantle over the regalia?
What do you think about using heretics veil for the curses instead of the cwdt setup?
Regalia is absolutely ok. Your surviviability will be even higher, and your damager lower. In fact, the 2.3 version of the build did use one. I switched back to IM in 2.4 for the extra damage to make the new fights more convenient.
HV is unneccessarily expensive, has lower es, no res and you can't run disc and AA with it. Don't underestimate the cwdt cursing. If you like it, try it out though!
My Build Compendium: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1634158
I have a really nice vaal regalia (903 es, resists). Is the damage from the 15 percent chaos conversion and plus 1 fire gems enough to still go with infernal mantle over the regalia?
What do you think about using heretics veil for the curses instead of the cwdt setup?
Regalia is absolutely ok. Your surviviability will be even higher, and your damager lower. In fact, the 2.3 version of the build did use one. I switched back to IM in 2.4 for the extra damage to make the new fights more convenient.
HV is unneccessarily expensive, has lower es, no res and you can't run disc and AA with it. Don't underestimate the cwdt cursing. If you like it, try it out though!
Yeah I had the HV on standard so I thought the plus to curses and reduced reservation might be worth it. I have 13k ES even without discpline and using HV, but I would like to run AA so I think I'll just use a rare ES helm instead.
Another note, on essence have you tried a delrium wand/dagger? Not sure if decay would work with firestorm but might be something interesting to try with an offhand dagger.
