Terrorist attack in Paris

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Bars wrote:

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Poutsos wrote:

I have really close friends living in Paris so i was quite worried. Horrible thing, and yeah the situation is also very dangerous when it comes to the refuges as well. People should remember that that's the shit that refuges are running from.

Now to the political side of things. We should codemn terror of any kind. By a huge margin, the biggest, most brutal, most dangerous terrorist organisation in the world, that have resulted in over 5 million deaths since WW2(4million direct, one million by supporting suppresive regimes), is of course CIA and the US goverment. Islamic fundamemntalist groups themselves, like Isis and Al Queda, were created as a -cause and effect- for US actions in these regions. Never forget that.

+1

+2

you just have to ask yourself, who is profiting from these attacks to get to the source of the problem.

europe is on a dangerous path for quite some time with germany as the source of the problem, causing unneccessary economic disaster because we are forcing a failed economic theory on other countries where only the super rich profit from.

it's simply the good old class war and humanity loses.

This is horrible, lets hope it doesnt happen again.

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Poutsos wrote:

Now to the political side of things. We should codemn terror of any kind. By a huge margin, the biggest, most brutal, most dangerous terrorist organisation in the world, that have resulted in over 5 million deaths since WW2(4million direct, one million by supporting suppresive regimes), is of course CIA and the US goverment. Islamic fundamemntalist groups themselves, like Isis and Al Queda, were created as a -cause and effect- for US actions in these regions. Never forget that.

I dont really understand, how can things like this be posted and talked about live with Michael T. Flynn, former head of the US Defense Intelligence Agency:

I mean, do people watch this shit?

"In Al Jazeera’s latest Head to Head episode, former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency Michael Flynn confirms to Mehdi Hasan that not only had he studied the DIA memo predicting the West’s backing of an Islamic State in Syria when it came across his desk in 2012, but even asserts that the White House’s sponsoring of radical jihadists (that would emerge as ISIL and Nusra) against the Syrian regime was “a willful decision.”

Full article
http://levantreport.com/2015/08/06/former-dia-chief-michael-flynn-says-rise-of-islamic-state-was-a-willful-decision-and-defends-accuracy-of-2012-memo/

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG3j8OYKgn4

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vio wrote:

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Bars wrote:

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Poutsos wrote:

I have really close friends living in Paris so i was quite worried. Horrible thing, and yeah the situation is also very dangerous when it comes to the refuges as well. People should remember that that's the shit that refuges are running from.

Now to the political side of things. We should codemn terror of any kind. By a huge margin, the biggest, most brutal, most dangerous terrorist organisation in the world, that have resulted in over 5 million deaths since WW2(4million direct, one million by supporting suppresive regimes), is of course CIA and the US goverment. Islamic fundamemntalist groups themselves, like Isis and Al Queda, were created as a -cause and effect- for US actions in these regions. Never forget that.

+1

+2

you just have to ask yourself, who is profiting from these attacks to get to the source of the problem.

europe is on a dangerous path for quite some time with germany as the source of the problem, causing unneccessary economic disaster because we are forcing a failed economic theory on other countries where only the super rich profit from.

it's simply the good old class war and humanity loses.

Yep, it's not difficult to reach some conclusions. I know one thing for sure, the ordinary, run-of-the-mill Muslims are screwed. Most of them are peaceful people - even if I disagree with and dislike their religion. For the record, I can say the same for Christianity. Anyway, they have been suffering for decades now and will continue to suffer from the great powers's machinations.

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Hilbert wrote:

Germany won't be target as long they deal with the countries that are supporting terrorism under the hand.

Remember the date you said this on, and when, God forbid, ISIS finds a target of opportunity in Germany. They will attack it, just as they attack, beat, burn and bully everyone around them that they can. They will not stop until either they are vanquished, or the rest of the world is under their blade. People who think otherwise are not just foolish, but dangerous and part of the reason this has gotten as far as it has. Peace never happens by accident, and longstanding peace requires a significant amount of effort to maintain.

For those who wonder which news media outlets are more or less trustworthy, I would recommend checking and saving several of the various news web pages over the next couple of days and then a few weeks or months later, look back and see which ones used hyperbole and which ones tried to sweep inconvenient facts under the rug until the facts were bigger than the rug itself.

This was a horrible tragedy, and it is similar to the horrid tragedies that ISIS and other warlord led governments have been dealing out on a regular basis. If the nations of the world (the key players would be the US, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and Iran) can work together they can bring this to an end - and working together it would just be a matter of years before ISIS was crippled without funds or equipment, and another few years to bring down the bulk of the network. Logistics are the first thing the international force must control. Even the most brainwashed armies cannot survive long without ammo, fuel, food etc.

If that happy day does come to pass, than the war crimes trials will begin and some high members of the US administration - specifically, Obama and Clinton, may very well go on trial and perhaps be sentenced for their part in intentionally toppling governments with no plan to stabilize the area.

None of this had to happen, but U.S. officials who thought their "superior intellects" and "good intentions" meant they had the right to violently manipulate other governments not only made this possible, but nearly inevitable. History is replete with examples around the world of military coups turning into long standing violent governments.

The emails proving this may be only a few months away - we will see what the FBI is able to recover off of server backups.

China's stance and their actions or lack of actions will tell us whether they intend to be part of the solution, or whether they are implicitly part of the problem. If the latter is true, then we can all expect the world economy to go into the drain fairly quickly and not recover for a long time as all trade is cut with China.

If China decides to covertly help ISIS, then we will see whether Rumsfields actions over the last several years have crippled the US Navy enough to prevent it from doing its job. This is where those long term big military budgets (if they were allocated correctly according to strategic needs and not political pork) pay priceless dividends.

Sorry to ramble so much, but this tragedy is just one of many like it before, it's just the location that has changed. It is one of many that they will try to attempt again, as often as they can, wherever they can. Expect more of the same until world leaders can pull their collective heads out of the sand and start acting they way they should by taking all the strategic and tactical steps they can to prevent this - not just the politically popular stances.

This terrorism doesn't have to continue, but it will so long as the bulk of the populace would prefer to pretend like it isn't happening and will go away if they just change the channel.

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"the key players would be the US, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and Iran"

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the US are directly or indirectly funding and helping ISIS.

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None of this had to happen, but U.S. officials who thought their "superior intellects" and "good intentions" meant they had the right to violently manipulate other governments not only made this possible, but nearly inevitable.

I don't think "good intentions", even misguided ones, were ever a part of the equation.

There are more than enough targets which would result in far more deaths than Paris.

Oktoberfest(right extremist suicided bombed there in the 80s), christmas markets, carnival, several annual concerts/festivals.

You don't get how terrorist networks work.
The one paying them are rich Saudi-Arabians, Yemenians and other countries.

Now guess which arms exporter sells them tanks and other arms?

Russia nope
USA nope
France nope
China nope
UK nope
Oh right Germany.

Their sponsors have no interest that they attack their business partners.

The targets are mainly those who openly opposing them.

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specifically, Obama and Clinton, may very well go on trial and perhaps be sentenced for their part in intentionally toppling governments with no plan to stabilize the area.

You are such a Republicanian

The ones at fault for those conflicts are Jimmy Carter, Bush Senior and Bush Junior.
You could blame the Obama Administration for Libya.

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If China decides to covertly help ISIS, then we will see whether Rumsfields actions over the last several years have crippled the US Navy enough to prevent it from doing its job. This is where those long term big military budgets (if they were allocated correctly according to strategic needs and not political pork) pay priceless dividends.

China doesn't care about ISIS they care more about Japan, Hong-Kong, Taiwan and the 4 asian tigers and the tiger cup economy states.

but hey lets all just let more of this scum into europe without batting an eye great idea

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DalaiLama wrote:

If that happy day does come to pass, than the war crimes trials will begin and some high members of the US administration - specifically, Obama and Clinton, may very well go on trial and perhaps be sentenced for their part in intentionally toppling governments with no plan to stabilize the area.

None of this had to happen, but U.S. officials who thought their "superior intellects" and "good intentions" meant they had the right to violently manipulate other governments not only made this possible, but nearly inevitable. History is replete with examples around the world of military coups turning into long standing violent governments.

Don't forget Bush, Cheney and Blair. Those guys are more to blame for the current situation. Some were extremely corrupt.

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That being said, this whole situation is a riddle. How one can balance secularism with extremism?

Many societies go to shit when they have to live with extremist because they dislike the other options.
How do you balance refugees rights vs. being safe? I don't think any option is more valuable that the other one.

It doesn't help that the worst current crazies are mostly islamists (with crazy christians using them as "the other" to justify their superiority, even when the only difference is that they don't go on killing sprees).

The endgame of ISIS and other groups is to provoke a new crusade, so the worst thing that could happen is if we play their game.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Don't forget Bush, Cheney and Blair. Those guys are more to blame for the current situation. Some were extremely corrupt.

...

That being said, this whole situation is a riddle. How one can balance secularism with extremism?

Many societies go to shit when they have to live with extremist because they dislike the other options.
How do you balance refugees rights vs. being safe? I don't think any option is more valuable that the other one.

It doesn't help that the worst current crazies are mostly islamists (with crazy christians using them as "the other" to justify their superiority, even when the only difference is that they don't go on killing sprees).

The endgame of ISIS and other groups is to provoke a new crusade, so the worst thing that could happen is if we play their game.

By getting the fuck out. In the 70's in Iran, women walked around with mini skirts. Was the situation perfect? No. They had a dictatorship, but sure as hell it was far better than it is now. If we had left them the fuck alone, the would overcome that as well in time.

The craziest might be radical islamists, but they are not even close to being the most murderous ones.

Getting the fuck out only works if we are sure the problems are self contained and they'll solve by themselves.

The current situation doesn't look like that. I dislike war as any other sane person out there, but the problem is too big to ignore now. This is more like the nazis.

More troubling that war is not thinking the afterwards. Iraq is the poster child for ill conceived militar efforts. Libya seems like the same (although the fact that peaceful civilians were killed makes things harder to judge).