Some food for thought.

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Miská wrote:

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AxxiusEQ wrote:

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Miská wrote:

GGG said themselves they don't want 80+ to be sustained. However if you spend 1 ex per map investment, and get nothing in return, not even a 78-79 base then there is something wrong. I don't know why you even give your opinion on something you have no experience with tbh. Getting abit tired arguing with people that have no experience in endgame mapping, about endgame mapping. Makes no sense tbh.

I have no problem with lv 80+ being unsustainable. Read my posts. They are all about lv 76-78. I have PLENTY of experience with that level range, and my point is that it is too expensive for a solo player.

And I see that you have dodged the question about what you do to sustain (even in your definition) lv 78-79. You don't sound like a person who flips items all day long and you don't have a link to your shop in your signature. And you say you don't buy maps. So I'm going to assume that you just run a bunch of lower level maps/lakes to get chisels/chaoses for every lv 78-79 map. Would you tell us how many such runs on average you have to do per 1 real map? Or is it more than you would like to admit? ;-)

Again i have no idea where such assumptions come from. Making currency in PoE isn't that hard, especially not if you consider the chisels you need to sustain up to 78, and the few chaos you need to reroll maps. I actually never used much chaos to reroll maps at all. A vaal orb works wonders most of the time, but then you need a build not affected by most mods.

I can sustain the currency needed for 80+ mapping, i have no idea why anyone would have trouble with the relatively small investment needed for <79's.

LOL. Stop dodging the question already!

How. Many. Junk map runs. Per one lv 78-79 map. Do you do?

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Miská wrote:

Again i have no idea where such assumptions come from. Making currency in PoE isn't that hard, especially not if you consider the chisels you need to sustain up to 78, and the few chaos you need to reroll maps. I actually never used much chaos to reroll maps at all. A vaal orb works wonders most of the time, but then you need a build not affected by most mods.

I can sustain the currency needed for 80+ mapping, i have no idea why anyone would have trouble with the relatively small investment needed for <79's.

I would really really really really really like to know how you do it. I mean, how much currency do you spend on a map on average? Do you add chisels? Fragments? Zana mods? Because really honestly, I am having trouble sustaining anything above 74.

I think that part of the problem, and the reason why experiences differ quite a bit, is the randomness.

As for builds capable of doing shit, >90% of the times I use a chaos on a map it is because the quantity / pack size is too low, and not because I cannot do the map. I do run reflect, double reflect, no regen, all ground mods, fracture, beyond... the only thing I do not run is weirdo combos like this:



Not sure, might run it, but looks pretty rippy. The other thing I do not run is blood magic, but I have not come across one of those in a long time, so I have not tried it, might actually work. Can run it on my other build if needed, though.

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Char1983 wrote:

Not sure, might run it, but looks pretty rippy. The other thing I do not run is blood magic, but I have not come across one of those in a long time, so I have not tried it, might actually work. Can run it on my other build if needed, though.

Double Merveil! <3

I have a boss killer SRS witch just for the cases like this. Just swarm them off screen and be sure to pop a cold resist flask and dodge the 2 back-to-back ice rains that are going to happen even when they can't see you (monster AI cheats and rains on you even when they don't 'know' where you are).

My method of minimizing the currency investment on rerolls vs problematic bosses is to clear to the boss area with one of the fast AE builds (current favorite is CI chaos incinerator), switch to the SRS boss killer near there, kill just enough trash to fill up Vaal Haste/Skellies, annihilate the boss, switch back to the fast killer and finish the map. I actually love double bosses (ok, 1 exception: double Malformation. fuck that). SRS don't discriminate. :)

The problem in general is that Vaal orbs don't drop nearly enough to Vaal every map above lv 75. Chisels (including hammers/breakers/gavels) don't drop often enough either. And especially not chaos orbs (inclduing the jewerly for the vendor recipe). You HAVE to get most of the currency elsewhere to roll high enough IIQ if you want to prevent your map pool from drying out.

Double extra-damage -max Merveil...

My map pool still dries out, even though I am investing more currency than I find.

Hi

Devs in the 187 mentioned they prefer PIE B4 CAKE, wha!!!!



LONG LIVE CAKE!

cheers

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AxxiusEQ wrote:

[
LOL. Stop dodging the question already!

How. Many. Junk map runs. Per one lv 78-79 map. Do you do?

What? I haven't done a 78 map or lower in ages. I get the currency i need to roll 79+ maps + zana mods from trading.

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Char1983 wrote:

I would really really really really really like to know how you do it. I mean, how much currency do you spend on a map on average? Do you add chisels? Fragments? Zana mods? Because really honestly, I am having trouble sustaining anything above 74.

I think that part of the problem, and the reason why experiences differ quite a bit, is the randomness.

As for builds capable of doing shit, >90% of the times I use a chaos on a map it is because the quantity / pack size is too low, and not because I cannot do the map. I do run reflect, double reflect, no regen, all ground mods, fracture, beyond... the only thing I do not run is weirdo combos like this:

Not sure, might run it, but looks pretty rippy. The other thing I do not run is blood magic, but I have not come across one of those in a long time, so I have not tried it, might actually work. Can run it on my other build if needed, though.

I started chiselling and alching my maps early. From 72 on. Pretty much just run and alch all the way up to 75. There is started to hit abit of a wall and used many vaals from there on. Probably 300+ easily in the 74-75 pool. Once i had some 76-77 (wich were mostly not rerolled either unless really low quantity, or - regen wich i found annoying.)

Like i said before, if you run only 75's you will run out of 75's eventually. You will however gain many 74's and a few 76-77 back who can help restore the 75 pool. I went back and forth like that even back to 73 alot. Not because i ran out of 75 maps, but just to not ever run out of them. When my 76 base was really strong, i did the same there. Expect your current pool to dry out while working on it. Use lower tiers to replenish it if you can't move higher yet.

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Miská wrote:

I get the currency i need to roll 79+ maps + zana mods from trading.

Finally, an answer! Thank you.

Being forced to trade, and not 'just' trade, but generate enough currency to run these maps on a regular basis, is WRONG. How many PoE players do you think are selling 20c+ worth of stuff per hour? That's if you want to run even 1-2 maps per hour, forget about fast clear speed builds.

Not to mention that those chaos orbs have to come from somewhere. Who is dropping them?
a) farm bots (not going to discuss that)
b) new players who are not yet heavily into mapping and don't have enough good drops of their own

Your strategy is based on using other people's time/work. But it's a pyramid scheme. It only benefits the traders who are high enough in the food chain, and only for a limited time. It requires a constant influx of new casual players to supply currency to you. Right now it's working because of the spike in player interest caused by the Awakening. But if the things stay as they are, your income will dry out soon enough. And then you won't be able to sustain even your current level. Zana's prices are fixed, they will not go down as the market gets saturated.

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable (thank you, Matt Bellamy :)).

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Miská wrote:

Like i said before, if you run only 75's you will run out of 75's eventually. You will however gain many 74's and a few 76-77 back who can help restore the 75 pool. I went back and forth like that even back to 73 alot. Not because i ran out of 75 maps, but just to not ever run out of them. When my 76 base was really strong, i did the same there. Expect your current pool to dry out while working on it. Use lower tiers to replenish it if you can't move higher yet.

As I said, I am not running out of my 75 pool. I am running out of my 75+ pool, so 75 and anything higher. It is depleting.

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Char1983 wrote:

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Miská wrote:

Like i said before, if you run only 75's you will run out of 75's eventually. You will however gain many 74's and a few 76-77 back who can help restore the 75 pool. I went back and forth like that even back to 73 alot. Not because i ran out of 75 maps, but just to not ever run out of them. When my 76 base was really strong, i did the same there. Expect your current pool to dry out while working on it. Use lower tiers to replenish it if you can't move higher yet.

As I said, I am not running out of my 75 pool. I am running out of my 75+ pool, so 75 and anything higher. It is depleting.

Then you need run more 75's to replenish them. Take 20x 75 maps and vaal them all.