Some food for thought.
" " Above 2 quotes pretty much sum up issues with post 2.0 mapping--there are no clear rules, you have to run large amount of maps and additionally there is little to no linkage between risk and reward in terms of map returns. I had no issue going slow, being patient, with map progression. I moved to next map level only when having 24 maps of that tier and I have yet to fall back to lower map level (this does not mean I do not run lower level maps). I now have so many 72 and below maps I really run out of stash tabs (+ 6 stash tabs of crap uniques I keep around for whatever reason...). I just wonder how many maps you have run to balance RNG in your favor. It just takes way too long. I lost another bit of hope in GGG when I read their latest manifesto on drop T1 drop increases. If this is the way balancing works, nerf it to the ground then later up it by 400%, I fear the state of maps and that it is not just bad luck I fight. | |
|
Hi
 One day GGG will figure it out cheers Conan: Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.
Never dance with the Devil because a dance with the Devil could last you forever... -I thought what I'd do was,I'd Pretend I was one of those deaf mutes- Nullus Anxietas:) |
|
" By that definition, you can 'sustain' any level of maps, including 82. You'll just have to run 100 low level maps (or just Dry Lake) for every 82 map. Get the 2 ex and go. Then what's your issue again? Too expensive? I'm saying it's too expensive not just at the top levels. I'm running the actual sustainability experiment in 2.0, doing pretty much exactly what the other guy suggests: accumulate 2 rows of level X maps, then move on to that level. And then finding out what it takes to sustain it (in my definition; let's call it self-sustaining if you prefer). Before 2.0.2 you could self-sustain lv 72 using only drops from lv 72 maps, and build a map pool up to lv 74 that you would run out of if you tried to self-sustain it, but then fall back to lv 72 and rebuild it. That (let's call it semi-sustaining) is still acceptable in my book. Patch 2.0.2 pushed it up 2 levels. Now I have a self-sustained lv 74 and a pool of lv 76 maps that requires constant falling back to lv 74. A moderate investment of 12c per map can break the lv 76 wall. I estimate the next wall being lv 78 where it starts requiring more than 4 chisels, 1 alch and Zana. But even 12c is still crazy for this level range. This is not the end game anymore. Not since 2.0. You have no problem with the situation up to lv 78, and complain that it's too expensive only above that. So tell me, where do you get the currency (by my estimate, about 20c per map) to run lv 78 maps? Active trading/flipping? Persistent group? Farming lower level maps/lake? If so, how many times per a lv 78 map? I find none of this acceptable for this level, but it would be very educational to learn exactly what it takes. So far you are the only 'expert' that looks willing to open up about the real cost of mapping instead of hiding behind the arrogant 'you are doing it wrong' statements. | |
" Aha, the key to sustaining level 75 maps finally revealed! Simply stock up on level 78-79 maps and your 75's will be replenished in abundance. | |
" I have no idea where you read i bought any maps. Reading is apparently not your strongest suit. @AxxiusEQ GGG said themselves they don't want 80+ to be sustained. However if you spend 1 ex per map investment, and get nothing in return, not even a 78-79 base then there is something wrong. I don't know why you even give your opinion on something you have no experience with tbh. Getting abit tired arguing with people that have no experience in endgame mapping, about endgame mapping. Makes no sense tbh. Last edited by Miská on Sep 2, 2015, 10:17:37 PM
| |
" I have no problem with lv 80+ being unsustainable. Read my posts. They are all about lv 76-78. I have PLENTY of experience with that level range, and my point is that it is too expensive for a solo player. And I see that you have dodged the question about what you do to sustain (even in your definition) lv 78-79. You don't sound like a person who flips items all day long and you don't have a link to your shop in your signature. And you say you don't buy maps. So I'm going to assume that you just run a bunch of lower level maps/lakes to get chisels/chaoses for every lv 78-79 map. Would you tell us how many such runs on average you have to do per 1 real map? Or is it more than you would like to admit? ;-) | |
" Again i have no idea where such assumptions come from. Making currency in PoE isn't that hard, especially not if you consider the chisels you need to sustain up to 78, and the few chaos you need to reroll maps. I actually never used much chaos to reroll maps at all. A vaal orb works wonders most of the time, but then you need a build not affected by most mods. I can sustain the currency needed for 80+ mapping, i have no idea why anyone would have trouble with the relatively small investment needed for <79's. | |
" The cost per maps heavily depends on build capabilities. The more mods you have to reroll, the more you're going to spend per map I personally have no problems at all sustaining 75-77 map pool (well i retired my 91 char for boredom actually) both in map pool and currencies. With my 91 Templar i only reroll temporal chains or double extra element + minus resists mods on 75-77 maps (not hardcore viable mods). I keep all rolls from 80% qual or above with 10% from chisels and 6% from Zana. Hell i even do no regene maps! It takes me no more than 1 alch, 2 chisels and 3 chaoses on average to roll a map for me. Usually from that same map i can get back 1 chaos only by alts and chroms, with the occasional other currencies, 6s items and various rares/uniques. Not to mention chaos/regal recipe After i retired the templar, i had only 5 chaoses left and roughly 15 alchs (2-3 scours too), but over 300 fusings and 200 jewelers. Which are valued 200 chaoses total I don't really know about other strict solo players; but i tend to pick up EVERY piece of gear that can be traded back to chaoses with this priorities 1) godly oniques 2) godly rares 3) sellable uniques 4) sellable rares 5) 6s items 6) vendor rares 7) chromatic items Yes i lose 2 minutes per map by porting back to HO and sell, but i mitigate by a lot the map costs. Ofc, can't talk for 78+ maps, since i only got two 78 maps that dropped lower than 76 maps :/ Last edited by Mahesys on Sep 3, 2015, 9:44:37 AM
| |
|
Seems like you are on a lucky streak or I am on a bad streak. I add 4 chisels to each map, I alch, chaos, vaal depending on the outcomes, sometimes add fragments. On average I probably run something like 15-20% pack size and 100% quantity. Some maps were 150+% quantity and 35% packsize. Several maps vaaled up in level. The returns are just not there, my 75+ map pool is shrinking and shrinking, and so is my currency (well, technically maybe not, if I count all the fusings and jewellers I made during the maps - but also had to spend an exalt to buy chisels recently). I do not chaos more than 3 times I guess because it is just uneconomical, but the maps I run should have enough quantity. The returns are simply not there, for quite a while now (it was a lot better before 2.0.2, and even there it felt bad).
I think the problem is that it is just incredibly random. I actually made a simulation of map runs and drops, and given what I know about the map system, and adding some assumptions, the result is that you can run into both very long lucky streaks as well as very unlucky streaks. The random component in the system is just too high. I can show some results of that simulation if people are interested. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
| |
" Its always relative to the amount of time you can put into the game. Its up to GGG to decide to which playerbase they want to cater. Latest patch show that they still bother about casual a bit :) |
