Give everyone 1 or 2 passive skill tree RESETS

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konfeta wrote:

Saying "lol nothing will change so stop" or doing these insulting strawmans IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE.

That's not what I'm doing. I'm not saying that they simply won't change anything... I'm saying that they've been hearing the exact same things constantly for months, and have yet to change anything. Therefore, it's safe to assume that yet another 10+ page thread on the exact same topic isn't going to make a difference.

I'm not discouraging feedback; I understand that GGG can't possibly think of everything. What I am discouraging is giving the same exact feedback/argument that's already been discussed over dozens of pages in multiple threads, spanning months of time. Creating a new thread to restart the discussion happens every few weeks, and nothing productive ever comes out of them except for another statement from a dev repeating that they're not going to give free respecs.

I encourage you or anyone else to say something about respecs that GGG hasn't heard and considered yet. Say something original that might make them change their minds.

Fair enough, such arguments are cyclical, I don't know specifically which arguments GGG has seen or considered before. But I have seen such arguments before on other forums to see why you are probably correct here.

But, if I may recommend, when you do these "discouragements," be concrete about it. If you say the arguments have been made, do so by explicitly pointing to the arguments that have already been made instead of a general hand-wave motion "we've seen this before." Do not ignore them - I have also seen too much bullshit where legitimate points that haven't been used before are ignored for sake of strawmans. It's difficult to distinguish between a point being ignored because it has been seen before and a point being ignored because opposition would rather "win an argument" instead of engage in a constructive debate.

Simple example from this very thread:

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This was a major issue in Median XL before 1.13 and its respec feature. People would simply go for the spell 'with the most damage' because it looked like the safest bet.

A point being made about the use of player psychology regarding build choices and how respecs help alleviate it for sake of testing. I have a hard time believing this forum is in the habit of having posters that are makers of major, consistently updated gameplay mods.

Of all the respec arguments I've seen on other forums related to Diablo 3, such a specific perspective/argument is almost never made. Delving into that specific argument would put one of your statements into a notion held by GGG into question:

To paraphrase some dev posts from long ago, they want the beta testers to play the game as if it were the released version. This gives them the most accurate feedback.

Ignored by everyone in the thread. Ooops. Perhaps it was even made a hundred times before and GGG is fully aware and acknowledged of these implications. Hard to say, because this information is buried in threadnauts of the ages past.

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WhiteBoy88 wrote:

Cool, I love insults! My name is White, so... yeah, serious, I guess.

well, i am german and whiteboy88 seems like a pretty hardcore trollname to me. but thanks for not getting my drift that people will ask A LOT MORE in the future and so on, that won't change a mister argument and his self claimed forum police of endless wisdom.

anyways looks like you've found your opponent for numerous agrument odysseys, see you in full release, i expect nothing less than you on the "throne".

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Mark_GGG wrote:

It will be possible to fully respec a character if they're prepared to find/trade for enough of the respec currency item.

Respec currency item for the win :)

When will we start to see them in beta?

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Mark_GGG wrote:

We are NOT going to be selling anything for real money that give an in-game advantage. This is covered in the FAQ, which you can find on the upper left. We will not sell XP, nor items which benefit your character. We will not sell respecs.

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Kizmet wrote:

The only way I can see no free respecs fitting into this situation is if GGG charges money for respecs.

Partial respecs are planned, and will be available to everyone for free. Full respecs are not, because if you want to play another character, you're encouraged to actually play another character. This is covered in more detail in the Beta Manifesto. It will be possible to fully respec a character if they're prepared to find/trade for enough of the respec currency item.

Roger! I skimmed trough FAQ to check if it had anything about this on-going topic but it seems like I somehow overlooked it. Well normally I hate mmog's that give you an possibility to somehow bypass portion of game by essentially "skipping" to endgame with various different methods. There are mmog's that actually sell you the best possible "gear" as a cash shop items and you can buy them right off the bat... *barf*

But this sounds good.

E: Yeah I can totally see skill respec becoming one of the most valuable, sought-after currency items in the game..

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NekotaJiji wrote:

E: Yeah I can totally see skill respec becoming one of the most valuable, sought-after currency items in the game..

and now we can all see why we dont have unlimited respeccs just for testing purposes...because GGG will want us testing these currency items so they can balance correctly eh?

I still think more people than not are going to be playing with their friends get into the 30's find out that they made pretty crappy choices, and instead of re-rolling and trying again(while getting left behind by their friends) they will just quit forever. I know myself and many of the people I know are on the edge of adding this game to our list of long term games we put years into, but a hatred of build/test will kill our long term interest.

Then again there are plenty of people that don't mind leveling a lvl 99 two handed maruader, 99 sword and board maurader, 99 dual wield maurader, and 4 witches one for each elemental type and a minion master and so on and so forth. Maybe there will be enough of those fellas that GGG won't need to listen to what the vocal minority of thier userbase wants, but I think the people that are going to do that would do it any way respecs or no.

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Kizmet wrote:

I still think more people than not are going to be playing with their friends get into the 30's find out that they made pretty crappy choices, and instead of re-rolling and trying again(while getting left behind by their friends) they will just quit forever. I know myself and many of the people I know are on the edge of adding this game to our list of long term games we put years into, but a hatred of build/test will kill our long term interest.

we can come up with a million stupid reasons why people will quit the game, a borked lvl 30 refusing to take a couple hours to reroll is a strawman.

learning the builds is part of the game, trial and error. GGG has said over and over (even in this thread) that you will get limited respeccs but if you want to completely rebuild you reroll. i submit that if you had your free unlimited full respeccs...you would powerlvl to top of the ladder changing your build at will and then QQ for more content, or get bored and quit anyway.

sounds like you and your friends want the builds handed to you with no effort and no risk/reward, wait a few days after release and there will be a ton linked that you can use.

im in a HC guild with friends and we all have many alts ov varying lvls and can easily find a guild party if we want one.

We already got 1 skill reset with a recent patch.

Perhaps they should give everyone skill resets every time they make changes to the grid (which I wish GGG would do more often).

Personally I am looking forward to another decrease in the grid size. Not just less nodes, I'm hoping for the entire map/paths/size to be changed. It is simply too overwhelming with hundreds of nodes and only ~100 skill points in the current state.