Compilation of melee / east side of the tree issues

I would not call it "superior", it is different.

Let's say, you have 4000 HP, a Monster deals 4000 damage, you evade half the attacks or you take half damage with armor. Both ways get you killed you in 2 hits.
It's just a different type of mitigation.
(yes, you can insta-pot back up to 4k between the two attacks with armor, while you're getting killed outright with evasion, but on the other hand, it takes much more investment and better gear to mitigate a 4k hit to 2k than to evade half of monster attacks)

Also this depends on so many factors that such calculations are never accurate. Let's say, the evasion dude has 4100 life, is Evasion better now? Or what if the monster deals 3500 damage?

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All I'm saying is:
If you prefer one over the other, then take this one.
But then you're not being forced into it , you are forcing yourself into it.

I enjoy both equally.
I had a lot of fun with evasion and armor, and generally I use both of them at the same time, works wonderful, too.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

I would not call it "superior", it is different.

Let's say, you have 4000 HP, a Monster deals 4000 damage, you evade half the attacks or you take half damage with armor. Both ways get you killed you in 2 hits.
It's just a different type of mitigation.
(yes, you can insta-pot back up to 4k between the two attacks with armor, while you're getting killed outright with evasion, but on the other hand, it takes much more investment and better gear to mitigate a 4k hit to 2k than to evade half of monster attacks)

Also this depends on so many factors that such calculations are never accurate. Let's say, the evasion dude has 4100 life, is Evasion better now? Or what if the monster deals 3500 damage?

---

All I'm saying is:
If you prefer one over the other, then take this one.
But then you're not being forced into it , you are forcing yourself into it.

I enjoy both equally.
I had a lot of fun with evasion and armor, and generally I use both of them at the same time, works wonderful, too.

This: "(yes, you can insta-pot back up to 4k between the two attacks with armor, while you're getting killed outright with evasion, but on the other hand, it takes much more investment and better gear to mitigate a 4k hit to 2k than to evade half of monster attacks)"

The game doesn't care about "close calls", sure, you were close to dying with armor, but you can use a pot and you don't die. With evasion, you just die.

You just go over it like it's normal. Just because of that, it's clearly superior. With one, you're given a chance to react, and with the other, you just outright die.
Oh, and let's not forget, that's assuming the RNG is being nice.
If you get a bad dice roll on your entropy, you can easily eat 2 unmitigated hits in a row.

Edit: I am, actually, being forced into it. Shadow part of the tree, build needs to get the aura nodes that are there, and travelling into armor nodes/300 strength to be able to even equip strength gear is not a possibility.
This cripples build diversity.

And if you're gonna go with the argument "ooh fuck every dpser crit build with so much es/evasion, everyone plays that anyway", there are some builds below that that no one actually noticed, and were very original and fun. The HUGE nerf the builds on top got hit with destroyed the unknown ones below like mines even more.
And the unknown builds like mine were not OP, mine still needed a lot of adjustment, and it didn't come close to a reave crit build.

Edit 2: I also disagree on the armor investment. Evasion is just as easy to get as armor is.
If you want to make that point, make it with ES, where both armor and evasion are MUCH easier to get than ES.

C-c-combo edit: I would actually add that you need much more investment in life with evasion, on top of having a huge investment in evasion itself, otherwise bosses will destroy you, period. Armor MVP tho

"

Peterlerock wrote:

I would not call it "superior", it is different.

Let's say, you have 4000 HP, a Monster deals 4000 damage, you evade half the attacks or you take half damage with armor. Both ways get you killed you in 2 hits.
It's just a different type of mitigation.
(yes, you can insta-pot back up to 4k between the two attacks with armor, while you're getting killed outright with evasion, but on the other hand, it takes much more investment and better gear to mitigate a 4k hit to 2k than to evade half of monster attacks)

Also this depends on so many factors that such calculations are never accurate. Let's say, the evasion dude has 4100 life, is Evasion better now? Or what if the monster deals 3500 damage?

---

All I'm saying is:
If you prefer one over the other, then take this one.
But then you're not being forced into it , you are forcing yourself into it.

I enjoy both equally.
I had a lot of fun with evasion and armor, and generally I use both of them at the same time, works wonderful, too.

you forgot the part about physical spells you can't evade
and the fact that armour users tend to have more life to begin with
and dying in 2 hits means you have time to react wich will save your life pretty much every time unless your just not paying attention.
Also important is when you get hit to low lfie as evasion your pretty much obligated to use a potion as you cant ignore the fact a random spell might hit you.

armour however will have it allot easier to judge when they must use a potion as they don't suddenly drop low. (usually)
don't underestimate potions and how much easier to manage them is as armour based.

not gonna say evasion is weaker then armour it isn't.
the problem with it is that you need a bigger life pool with it.
and it's hard to get. not impossible mind you but you just lack good options as a pure evasion melee at this time i feel.

haven't tried mixing them yet tough i was planning on doing that on my next build.

I have a shadow melee evasion character. As I've said in other threads, he's very squishy even with reasonable investment into defense/life.

AA is MANDATORY for evasion melee and I need to use hatred to up my damage to reasonable levels, so I can't do anything like run grace or a herald. Also, wild strike takes a ridiculous amount of mana so I've had to actually invest in mana nodes and STILL need a mana potion.

I haven't tried leech as I'm using wild strike so am elemental. The LGoH implicit on claws is amazing with the shadow/ranger attack speed nodes. GGG should consider some small LGoH nodes instead of leech nodes on that side of the tree.

My play experience is basically, go along fine until dead in less than a second. But that's happening a lot less now that they nerfed revenants and eye hatcheries.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

Ondar's was one of the few keystones without a drawback.

Now it's the only keystone without an advantage.

"

Timewar9 wrote:

I have a shadow melee evasion character. As I've said in other threads, he's very squishy even with reasonable investment into defense/life.

AA is MANDATORY for evasion melee and I need to use hatred to up my damage to reasonable levels, so I can't do anything like run grace or a herald. Also, wild strike takes a ridiculous amount of mana so I've had to actually invest in mana nodes and STILL need a mana potion.

I haven't tried leech as I'm using wild strike so am elemental. The LGoH implicit on claws is amazing with the shadow/ranger attack speed nodes. GGG should consider some small LGoH nodes instead of leech nodes on that side of the tree.

My play experience is basically, go along fine until dead in less than a second. But that's happening a lot less now that they nerfed revenants and eye hatcheries.

Does this mean the only way to play a leech character is being melee with claws?
GGG said you had to make a "bigger investment" on leech to get bonuses to it.
Equiping claws is not an investment, it's a whole build change.

Again, build crippling stuff, seeing as how just to do a "non-specific shadow melee evasion leech" char, you've pretty much only had one solution.

Edit: and yeah, the mana cost on wild strike is ridiculous.

"

ZeroZ30o wrote:

"

Timewar9 wrote:

I have a shadow melee evasion character. As I've said in other threads, he's very squishy even with reasonable investment into defense/life.

AA is MANDATORY for evasion melee and I need to use hatred to up my damage to reasonable levels, so I can't do anything like run grace or a herald. Also, wild strike takes a ridiculous amount of mana so I've had to actually invest in mana nodes and STILL need a mana potion.

I haven't tried leech as I'm using wild strike so am elemental. The LGoH implicit on claws is amazing with the shadow/ranger attack speed nodes. GGG should consider some small LGoH nodes instead of leech nodes on that side of the tree.

My play experience is basically, go along fine until dead in less than a second. But that's happening a lot less now that they nerfed revenants and eye hatcheries.

Does this mean the only way to play a leech character is being melee with claws?
GGG said you had to make a "bigger investment" on leech to get bonuses to it.
Equiping claws is not an investment, it's a whole build change.

Again, build crippling stuff, seeing as how just to do a "non-specific shadow melee evasion leech" char, you've pretty much only had one solution.

Edit: and yeah, the mana cost on wild strike is ridiculous.

I didn't say anything about leech....

"

Timewar9 wrote:

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ZeroZ30o wrote:

"

Timewar9 wrote:

I have a shadow melee evasion character. As I've said in other threads, he's very squishy even with reasonable investment into defense/life.

AA is MANDATORY for evasion melee and I need to use hatred to up my damage to reasonable levels, so I can't do anything like run grace or a herald. Also, wild strike takes a ridiculous amount of mana so I've had to actually invest in mana nodes and STILL need a mana potion.

I haven't tried leech as I'm using wild strike so am elemental. The LGoH implicit on claws is amazing with the shadow/ranger attack speed nodes. GGG should consider some small LGoH nodes instead of leech nodes on that side of the tree.

My play experience is basically, go along fine until dead in less than a second. But that's happening a lot less now that they nerfed revenants and eye hatcheries.

Does this mean the only way to play a leech character is being melee with claws?
GGG said you had to make a "bigger investment" on leech to get bonuses to it.
Equiping claws is not an investment, it's a whole build change.

Again, build crippling stuff, seeing as how just to do a "non-specific shadow melee evasion leech" char, you've pretty much only had one solution.

Edit: and yeah, the mana cost on wild strike is ridiculous.

I didn't say anything about leech....

Oh yeah, you're right, I'm a derp, blegh. Either way, it still gives you no options tho.

Its realy simple, get defence on top of defence, get suplement defences as regeneration, leech, stun, knock back, speed, movment skills, curses, elemental stast effects as chill, freez get a minions, totems. Use your imagination.

You cant just use one form of defence, end of story.

"

i8037 wrote:

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Peterlerock wrote:

Ondar's was one of the few keystones without a drawback.

Now it's the only keystone without an advantage.

Haha Funny and True

+1