SFL league poll

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Invisible_Frog wrote:

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deathflower wrote:

This statement is contradictory though. If that is the case, hardcore league shouldn't exist either.

I don't care if hardcore exists or not. But I'm against wasting precious resources on redundant things like SFL, when all you literally gotta do is abstain from trading.

That would a misconception. I don't think people who supported SFL are in agreement with how SFL should be, much less likely abstain from trading would be the only change if SFL came to be.

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deathflower wrote:

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Invisible_Frog wrote:

Why would the devs even bother putting all the time and effort into a game mode that already exists. Just don't trade, there's your SFL. Many self-found players are enjoying the game this way already.

This statement is contradictory though. If that is the case, hardcore league shouldn't exist either.

Wrong, hardcore league needs its own economy while SFL league only needs its own ladder.

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Xavderion wrote:

Wrong, hardcore league needs its own economy while SFL league only needs its own ladder.

Oh yeah sounds great, we should totally make a new ladder for every arbitrary playstyle that certain people happen to have in common. We should get a ladder with disabled logut macro, a ladder for streamers only and another ladder where templars get to wear pants. We should get a ladder in which the piety dialogue is about how sc players should not feel inferior to hc players and how they are equally worthy of love. Hell we should get a ladder for people who play in windowed mode while fapping to [Removed by Support] tabs in between loading screens. That's because I deserve to be happy and everybody else is ignorant.

SFL = Self Found Loot, right?

That game already exists, it's called Diablo 3.

Or you can just play self-found in this game and not worry about your epeen size compared to other people because it's just an ARPG anyways.

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Xavderion wrote:

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deathflower wrote:

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Invisible_Frog wrote:

Why would the devs even bother putting all the time and effort into a game mode that already exists. Just don't trade, there's your SFL. Many self-found players are enjoying the game this way already.

This statement is contradictory though. If that is the case, hardcore league shouldn't exist either.

Wrong, hardcore league needs its own economy while SFL league only needs its own ladder.

SFL league is anti-capitalism in nature, it reject the idea of the existence of an economy. A self found league and playing self-found are separate idea. The game isn't balanced around a SFL but a trade economy. If it is, we can just remove trading from the current leagues altogether and call it a day.

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Quixote77 wrote:

No, I actually didn't but thanks for presuming. POE is the first F2P ARPG I've played; I've little experience with them otherwise and mostly played the popular paid games you mentioned.

That's you and I'm sure plenty of players here, present and past, feel the same way. I'm just considering what kind of numbers would convince GGG to create a league which abandons their F2P and maximum grind design philosophy.

Would word of mouth amongst this player base be a sufficient draw for a league unlikely to be populated by streamers and top players? Like I said, I'm open to the idea. I'm simply trying to see this from GGG's perspective.

Sorry, my bad. I assumed (incorrectly) that anyone that ends up here playing PoE had already tried TL2, D3, maybe Grim Dawn beta, etc. and hadn't been satisfied with their limited builds (no wide open sandbox) and found that PoE wins by a mile. Also if MMOARPG's are not quite the right fit for you then PoE is closer to your "goldilocks" arpg target.

Well now, since you opened the door I can theorize that if GGG knew (but that's always the 6.4 million dollar question {udjusting for inflation}... or maybe the 6.4 million frustrated and/or have quit players) that if these players knew there was an SFL where 1000 hours isn't needed but 1/3 to 1/2 that time to get a 6L drop or reach level 90 (90 to 100 can still be another 300 to 500 hours of grind), that better gear drops that meet or beat the exile build level (doesn't have to be T1 gear but item progression to equal build level drops come once an hour) and that the must have crafting orbs will drop 5x more often (not just 5x the super low rng chance but 5x in real time) so that crafting gear is feasible for most 500 hour builds, then that should entice at least a tenth of the lost 6.4 million players to come back and give PoE another try. If at least 1/10th of these 640,000 players were to buy at least $20.00 US of mtx average then that's $1.28 million US. Then word of mouth should get another 100,000 or more to play and that should be another high revenue stream at new players need lot's of stash space that the higher orb drop rates would fill faster.

GGG doesn't need to go the TL2 route ($60.00 = 4 accounts) and stop being a F2P arpg. I actually see charging $15 to $20 up front to play an SFL would be a deterrent to new players buying anything so the F2P model should continue. For example, I have 42 stash tabs, a Kiwi pet, and one weapon effect so I'm well over $100 in total so far and would have purchased one of the medium supporter packs by now if GGG wasn't so fanatical about making PoE a quality loot starvation arpg game just because a few 100 elite no-lifers can get to level 100 in any 3 month league (a handful do that in only a month). Keeping the no-lifer from racing to level 100 is ok in theory but making PoE that time grind intensive with such super low rng quality gear drop chances has burned me out. I hung in and got a level 88 Scion build in PoE 1.3.x but with the Awakening's higher Merciless Act 4 bosses but with less empowerment and an overall feeling of GGG slapping me down hard yet again with leech nerfs my desire to continue playing is gone. Too bad too as I still love the core game play and build mechanics but with nothing in sight or on the horizon to make the common players feel that all this grind time will finally be rewarded (no pot of gold at the end of the grind time gauntlet) my future playing of PoE is over.

I do realize that everyone eventually gets burned out but here with PoE the theory crafting and testing of new builds could have gone on another decade or more if it weren't for the damn lack of better gear all the way to level 100 (or at least level 90) and the overall feeling that GGG is only making PoE changes based on the ladder players (for which I will never be on and don't care about) and constantly ramping up difficulty to stop level 100 builds.

Without a better feeling of empowerment in my builds (and no they are not all crappy... I do know a thing or 2 playing this much time, I'll just never be at the elite player's knowledge level and I shouldn't have to have a PoE mathematics degree... and I'm ok with this) and as each act includes the expected power creep to please the elites, I am another casualty of GGG's narrow vision. More ways to play PoE with another pair of permanent leagues for the 99% is needed now more than ever.


P.S. Please no TR;DR or wall of text... blah, blah, blah response. This is supposed to be a serious discussion here and my passion for PoE is highest of any arpg to date but my playing desire has hit an all time low and so it requires more than just unwanted troll replies.

you make great points, Arrowneous.
but I tend to agree with MoonYu it is wasted effort really.
on the one hand, you don't need to write such serious posts for people like me who already know you're right.
on the other, people who are just here to troll and throw straws left and right probably won't bother reading your posts anyway.
or will. under a microscope. "looking for ammo" to troll you with.

of course, there are people who come into this thread, "neutral".
I think they tend not to comment, because they may find themselves being an "enemy" to one of the "sides".
that's... not a healthy way to conduct a discussion.
in fact, I think the days where you could call any discussion in the PoE forums "healthy", are sadly long gone.

It has been confirmed a long time ago by Chris W. that SFL is not going to happen.
Basically; if you want to play solo self found, ironborn/ironman mode, no-altF4-HC or with whatever rules fitting your playstyle, then just do it! There's nothing in the game preventing you from experimenting and trying new crazy things. You can then share your experiences and thoughts with other players, for example on youtube, reddit, some personal blog, or here. People love exotic content. You really don't have to play diablo 3 for that, and you don't need to stream every time you open PoE to assure everyone you're not doing something against the preset rules.


My point of view:
1. Players are ALWAYS able to change their characters from SF to nonSF and vice versa. People playing the hypothetical SF league might want a feature enabling taking their characters back into "normal" leagues. Hey if you die in hardcore you're send into standard, so why not giving them an option to become nonSF, right? Too much hassle for GGG.
2. Introducing SFL just for the sake of a "different" ladder, or only to create a better environment for a handful of players would be unhealthy for the game, because it would cause further division of playerbase.

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shalq wrote:

It has been confirmed a long time ago by Chris W. that SFL is not going to happen.
Basically; if you want to play solo self found, ironborn/ironman mode, no-altF4-HC or with whatever rules fitting your playstyle, then just do it! There's nothing in the game preventing you from experimenting and trying new crazy things. You can then share your experiences and thoughts with other players, for example on youtube, reddit, some personal blog, or here. People love exotic content. You really don't have to play diablo 3 for that, and you don't need to stream every time you open PoE to assure everyone you're not doing something against the preset rules.


My point of view:
1. Players are ALWAYS able to change their characters from SF to nonSF and vice versa. People playing the hypothetical SF league might want a feature enabling taking their characters back into "normal" leagues. Hey if you die in hardcore you're send into standard, so why not giving them an option to become nonSF, right? Too much hassle for GGG.
2. Introducing SFL just for the sake of a "different" ladder, or only to create a better environment for a handful of players would be unhealthy for the game, because it would cause further division of playerbase.

1. People shouldn't be arguing about whether or not players can play self-found, they are already able to, that argument is pointless. This thread is petition to GGG to create a league where trading is removed from the game and design to cater to that specific playstyle, which is self-found, a whole different matter.

2. You have to define what is meant by "healthy" in the first place. If the goal is to have a large robust economy, there shouldn't be a split into so many leagues in the first place. In fact, the league should be collapse into a single market place. The players are already split into many different leagues. Not like GGG make the best decisions.

It already does flow into a single market place, it's called Standard. Everything eventually ends up here.

Besides that you have only hardcore and softcore. Wich is common for this type of game. In either you can freely participate in being SF. Nobody is stopping you.