Monsters that ruin the game (not a QQ thread, only pure feedback)

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When I said "X" kind of mob, I didn't mean "X" mobs of a specific kind of monster, but specific kind of monster "X".

For devourers, I'd say that the issue doesn't lie in the number of devourers that you can aggro at a time, but that all of them can pop around you at the same time. Many more builds can survive pulling 20 devourers at the same time, but with only 6 around them at any time than builds can survive pulling 10 devourers, all around the character at the same time.


In my specific example, it happened twice in the same Zana map, with different devourer groups, and the map didn't even have increased pack size. This had never happened to me before, even in maps where I had to push through countless packs of devourers, popping 4 to 6 at a time. Needless to say that I didn't attempt to finish Zana's map.

PS : wispo, I suggest you use "" in order to clarify your post. I was tempted to skip it halfway through.

I was macking a mockery (in a friendly manner however) of Boem, that raises his fan-shields protecting shitty devourers saying that our deaths against them are OUR fault :) I was giving the reason to YOU :)

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Wispo wrote:

Conveniently? Pleeeease mate ;)
Self gimped? You are kidding i hope. CoC can wipe out uber Atziri ;)

Yes, I made one.

But are you claiming your CoC build, which uses tabala because you're too poor to buy a good 6l chest can "wipe out" uber atziri but can't handle leapers?

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Moosifer wrote:

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Wispo wrote:

Conveniently? Pleeeease mate ;)
Self gimped? You are kidding i hope. CoC can wipe out uber Atziri ;)

Yes, I made one.

But are you claiming your CoC build, which uses tabala because you're too poor to buy a good 6l chest can "wipe out" uber atziri but can't handle leapers?

I managed to bring you exactly to the point i wanted to ;) In fact, Uber Atziri is difficult for her damage (e.g.: no one can survive a double flame blast), but at least has GOOD MECHANICS: she DOESN'T kill you all of a sudden, without any advice. Ok, she spams thunders, but at least she gave you plenty of time between the appearance of the marks on the ground and the actual lightning hit... so you can spot the free area and lightning warp / leap slam / whirling blade right there. Same thing for single/double flame blast: yes great portion of the screen is covered but, like storm calls, YOU CAN SEE DAMAGE COMING >>>>BEFORE<<<< IT ACTUALLY COMES.

And so you can COUNTERPLAY (in this case, moving away).

But for chimerals? There is no "mark on the ground". There is no a "preparation" before the attack (in this case, the lunching of Avian retches before the "artillery attack" is an example of good game design). Nothing. Only a group of 7-8 superspeed mobs that stack onto your head all at once, FROM OFFSCREEN (Atziri doesn't do NOTHING from offscreen), all at the same time pratically. The situation becomes darker when they are blue. In my case, they were SWIFT chimerals. And they were 8 (i have taken my time to count them walking around my "resurrect in town/checkpoint" screen). Moreover, if every monster that hits you in less than a 1/4 second does over 1.5k damage, it's OBVIOUS that a good portion of players will die in 3 hits (1.5k * 3 = 4.5K). Here comes the utility of evasion: a "still in progress" exile like mine (=not completed in evasion still) has roughly 40% dodge + some sort of evasion (52% in my case). So let's assume i have evaded 4 or 5 of those 8 chimerals. 3 remains. 4.5k damage taken. I would have been dead. With more evasion i would have survived, taking 2 hits out of 8, but in a map they would have been beefed up, so the SHITTY MECHANIC of sudden-offscreen insta death will be repeated.

Now i have made to you this hypotetical example-only fight between my coc and chimerals. But the actual fight was ES witch vs swift chimerals. And was a witch with over 9k ES, and with more than 800 (EIGHT HUNDRED) ES regen per second. And a witch that was leeching life with incinerate. Well trust me: in the SAME moment i have heard the hateful sound of those beasts, my finger (ALWAYS ALREADY POSED ON KEYBOARD NUMBERS FOR POTIONS) did have not the time even to sinply push down the quicksilver flask button (=escape) and i was downed to over 9k ES to less than 2K!!!! Now let's do a calculation on a single second: 7K damage taken + 800 ES regen/sec + 400 ES leech/sec (1.250+ incinerate * 4 stacks * 7,4% leech) = 8.200 damage in less than a second!!!! WITHOUNT ADVICE!!! FROM OFFSCREEN!!!! WITH GRANITE ALREADY UP BEFORE THE HITS!!! WITH DESYNC TOO!!!!!

Now my friend, try to defend AGAIN a shit like this. You are NOT making a good figure, i tell you ;) And it would be telled to you by countless other players. Even Charan, surely a 1.000 times more experienced player than me, admits that chimerals are "all bad in this game". And i don't think that he doesn't have experience or richness or gaming knowledge or whatever ;)

Edit: sorry for the caps: i'm not shouting, but from the phone it's a mess to underline phrases :/

Well, here comes a perspective from a build that actually cannot really be killed by any of the "Ruinous" mobs. Basically, my build uses almost ALL forms of damage mitigation except for evade/dodge, (I use US) AA, or any unique chestpieces. (I use an Aegis so I have a super-high AR+ES chest) As a general rule, it's made pretty much any white/blue/rare mob pack never a real threat, barring disconnects. But still, there CAN be things that irk me...

A) I've never had an issue of ever being KILLED or close to my croaking chimerals... They CERTAINLY are rather annoying. Any monster that spams movement skills, even if they aren't a threat of sudden death without warning, are still a pain to deal with... Especially when they keep getting knockback. That, and in melee they're annoying to try to catch. And it just looks tacky, especially since they seem to effectively ignore collision to get a landing spot. The end result is that they take significantly long to clear through than otherwise-comparable mobs. Perhaps a solution here is to limit the rate leaping enemies can all leap? e.g, if one in a pack leaps, it puts it on cooldown for all of them for, say, half a second.

B) Fast moving monsters are indeed annoying... Granted, for the most part, I feel their threat can LARGELY be mitigated through more careful play. One that I dislike, though; Tengu/Birdman/Gluttonous Gull/Avian Retch. They seem extra-desync-happy to avoid getting hit as they dash around. Also, yes, some faster monsters stacking haste could potentially be a problem... Perhaps the better solution might be to take a "diminishing returns" approach to stacking movement speed. E.g, if an enemy has a natural speed of, say, 200% (going with arbitrary numbers here) instead of a "60% more movespeed" bumping them to 320%, it starts to cut in a "diminished returns" figure akin to, say, further IIR or stun threshold reduction. So any boost will STILL make them FASTER... Just that it'd be harder to see them hit an OSCENE degree.

C) Mitigating revivers is a bit easier; carry around a level 1 Flesh/Bone offering gem. (as it can consume up to 8 corpses per cast instead of the 1 for detonate dead) However, I do agree it becomes kinda silly to mandate everone carry one around for just that purpose. (or rely on a 100% freeze-shatter build, which aren't necessarily affordable...) It DOES seem a lot of summoners have limits... But not all, though. For weak summons (Brutus' skeletons, really) it's not as much to mind; they serve a good source of flask charges for most. Though I do agree some cap should be in place, even if HIGH. (my first time on the new Merveil had me abandon it after the place was packed with statues that took too long to kill)

D) Freeze/Chill on their own aren't a problem. Mostly, I've noticed that yes, there appear to be some problematic behaviors in the new "immunities" provided by flasks. Even from utility flasks, they don't seem to always work 100%. Besides that, though, I don't see much wrong with chill/freeze beyond the fact that the Ranger section of the tree is the only part that gets avoidance passives.

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Wispo wrote:

I managed to bring you exactly to the point i wanted to ;) In fact, Uber Atziri is difficult for her damage (e.g.: no one can survive a double flame blast), but at least has GOOD MECHANICS: she DOESN'T kill you all of a sudden, without any advice. Ok, she spams thunders, but at least she gave you plenty of time between the appearance of the marks on the ground and the actual lightning hit... so you can spot the free area and lightning warp / leap slam / whirling blade right there. Same thing for single/double flame blast: yes great portion of the screen is covered but, like storm calls, YOU CAN SEE DAMAGE COMING >>>>BEFORE<<<< IT ACTUALLY COMES.

A boss battle requiring high skill level. Seems to make sense.

You keep ignoring my point. You said you're playing a CoC build which uses tabala because you can't afford a better 6l. So you are playing a build you cannot afford to play properly and complaining it's dying easily.

From the numbers you're listing you're talking high lvl maps, which toon are you doing this in, your 72 or 78?

Either you aren't telling the entire truth or you're making shit up. Something isn't adding up here.

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Could we please continue this discussion without accusing people of lying?

The point about movement bonus stacking doesn't look like a real issue, to me. I find it hard to imagine that monsters could be an exaggerated threat without there being something that let you know there was a danger (like a map mod). Specifically, ultra-fast mobs are designed with high speeds in mind, so you should be able to deal with them correctly despite that high speed, and hard-hitting ones are slow, so you should be able to react quick enough to defend against them.

How? How do you have a discussion about a situation when it's impossible to follow the context? This is why these threads end up going no where because people give completely subjective opinions with no context for it and it leaves everyone else to put their own perspective on it so everyone has a different conclusion.

He's giving exact numbers and exact situations but changing them each post. He's talking about how much damage these are doing to his CoC tabala build yet has 50% evasion. Either he's talking low lvl or he has some pretty insane gear. If he's talking low lvl 1.5k seems pretty god damn extreme, what level content is he doing? All of these things matter and either he's lying or the context is fucked. One of the two things need to be cleared up.

If he's taking his lvl 78 toon w/ a tabala into a 78 map and getting stomped, well no shit. If he's doing a 66 map, 1.5k damage is fucking extreme. Context is really important here, sorry if I'm particular but if you guys don't see this as important than please, everyone just say the next person is wrong. As we clearly don't want to figure out what's happening here rather just say everyone is wrong.

I've been doing Dom with a +90 ar/eva/block around 6K HP char. I'm at +20 lvls above the area level with pretty high HP, defenses and 75 resists. Char specialized in dealing with phys damage.

A group of croaking chimerals first froze (?!?) me deep, then beat me while frozen almost to death. In a 68 area. I stood up shocked.

What's the point to discuss about these mobs and how will they behave in 78 content.
They are fuckin messed up.
Everyone with experience will say that. There's no point for discussion.