Monsters that ruin the game (not a QQ thread, only pure feedback)

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Boem wrote:


I would argue if you cant beat the minions faster then they are spawned, that's the game trying to tell you to upgrade your gear or optimize your build for a better result.

-Boem-


You would be correct.

I would argue the game is worse off for demanding that.


You can, everybody can. The way i see it a smart exile will overcome adversity and bend his surroundings to achieve his goal.

coming up with clever ways to bypass the dps check is not out of the realm of possibility and is most certainly possible given the freedom we have.

Upgrading gear and just brute-forcing it is only one of many ways to beat the system.

Optimizing your build comes down to mechanical know-how and experience/skill (whichever you prefer)

Finding option C is always an option in PoE. I found many and i enjoy it when the game forces me to come up with an option C.

Everything listed in this thread has known counters that are not character exclusive as far as i can tell.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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Infinite spawn is still stupid. Sorry. No ARPG in history has done it. It's a cheap way of adding 'challenge' when all 'challenge' means in this case is 'more AoE, more damage, follow the crowd, baaaaa'

...My argument to GGG in this regard was only slightly more eloquent.


Personal God... <3
Well here is the thing, imagine they put a hardcap on merveil statue's.

Let's say 8 can only be spawned at one time.

How exactly does that change your situation? From what i am reading here, you cant reliably keep them down and target the boss.

So making it hard-cap at 8 does nothing to solve that issue, you would still be unable to bring them down and target the boss.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
The interesting aspect about infinite spawns in boss battles is that it doesn't add any challenge to those specializing in massive AoE. In fact, it generally makes the battle even easier. However, it does especially crap on builds that are more single target or less spammy. The builds that already had it tough in every other aspect of the game.

I guess it was a bit unfair for them to have one part of the game they excelled.
"Danger is like jello, there's always room for more."
http://www.twitch.tv/vejita00
A) Decoy Totem

B) I agree, with desync these can be the biggest pain in the ass.

C) Summoners are the only reason some people require an AoE skill, or a single-target skill. For example a powerful AoE is less useful against many +ES resurrectors, while a powerful single target is less useful against powerful DD/Explosion summoners. They actually have a large role in why people need multiple good skills within their build.

D) I used 2 flasks for this issue, in case the first ran out. There's not much you can do but just constantly watch your player for any signs of frost. I agree somewhat, and I think the problem lies with the tree not having good enough benefits for what can be done about it. I mean there are options for 8% less chance of getting status effects and such. Great, but when you have a flask that can immediately get rid of the effect what's the point in allocating a skill point or 2 for that effect? More than 8% of the monsters would have to have frost attacks that are powerful. Let's see..

4/38 have a frost attack that's remotely threatening, that's 7.8% but not including the fact that there are multiple types of undying and statues, so that list is more like 4/50 (8% or less).

Then, factor in the fact that most of that time you are trying your hardest to mitigate the damage, for evade characters it's more like 4% IF THAT (because of Ondar's Guile alone) making it not worth taking, and for Armor/ES characters they're going to rely on potions or items anyways because they can just facetank the damage. So yeah, not sure what could actually be done without it then being OP though, but it has to be WORTH spending a point on, whatever happens.

The most annoying monsters imo are the burrowed ones. Devourers can be bad, and I mostly hate them because they don't seem to be triggered underground by the decoy totem. However, I've also had really annoying experiences with 'Siren's Daughters', where they pretty much ambush you with a reflect status, so by the time you realize they are reflecting you're dead. Also because desync, you kind of WANT to be killing them when they're at your feet because you don't know whether or not you have the chance to run without being teleported back in the middle of them.

The only other ridiculousness I've seen was a (I can't remember if it was rare or something) Rhoa with +speed that came into the screen at 200mph. Luckily I evaded, but there would have been nothing I could have done about it.
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The interesting aspect about infinite spawns in boss battles is that it doesn't add any challenge to those specializing in massive AoE. In fact, it generally makes the battle even easier. However, it does especially crap on builds that are more single target or less spammy. The builds that already had it tough in every other aspect of the game.

I guess it was a bit unfair for them to have one part of the game they excelled.


I thought atziri would have fixed this, by giving single target specializers an end-game goal or personal trick they excelled at.

Spoiler
and then we got the "adds phase"


:o)

But honestly, if your single target based, you better have some sick single target in PoE to cover your aim.
So adds should go down in 1/2 hits reliably. They should "just" slow you down a tad from moving to the boss without actually impeding your movement. (imo)

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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Corpsey wrote:
A) Decoy Totem

B) I agree, with desync these can be the biggest pain in the ass.

C) Summoners are the only reason some people require an AoE skill, or a single-target skill. For example a powerful AoE is less useful against many +ES resurrectors, while a powerful single target is less useful against powerful DD/Explosion summoners. They actually have a large role in why people need multiple good skills within their build.

D) I used 2 flasks for this issue, in case the first ran out. There's not much you can do but just constantly watch your player for any signs of frost. I agree somewhat, and I think the problem lies with the tree not having good enough benefits for what can be done about it. I mean there are options for 8% less chance of getting status effects and such. Great, but when you have a flask that can immediately get rid of the effect what's the point in allocating a skill point or 2 for that effect? More than 8% of the monsters would have to have frost attacks that are powerful. Let's see..

4/38 have a frost attack that's remotely threatening, that's 7.8% but not including the fact that there are multiple types of undying and statues, so that list is more like 4/50 (8% or less).

Then, factor in the fact that most of that time you are trying your hardest to mitigate the damage, for evade characters it's more like 4% IF THAT (because of Ondar's Guile alone) making it not worth taking, and for Armor/ES characters they're going to rely on potions or items anyways because they can just facetank the damage. So yeah, not sure what could actually be done without it then being OP though, but it has to be WORTH spending a point on, whatever happens.

The most annoying monsters imo are the burrowed ones. Devourers can be bad, and I mostly hate them because they don't seem to be triggered underground by the decoy totem. However, I've also had really annoying experiences with 'Siren's Daughters', where they pretty much ambush you with a reflect status, so by the time you realize they are reflecting you're dead. Also because desync, you kind of WANT to be killing them when they're at your feet because you don't know whether or not you have the chance to run without being teleported back in the middle of them.

The only other ridiculousness I've seen was a (I can't remember if it was rare or something) Rhoa with +speed that came into the screen at 200mph. Luckily I evaded, but there would have been nothing I could have done about it.


A) totem destroyed in 1-2 hits :/ i have cwdt+... immortal call? No. cwdt+enfeeble (-22% damage). Still, >>>>>6k<<<<< less ES for me with 7-8 blue chimerals leaps (=1 second). And after this, i facetanked merciless Dominus' Touch of God (>>>>>4k<<<<< ES damage) :/ Oh, almost forgot: i even have 800 ES regen/sec. Not enough for counter those damn physical leaps -.-

B) :)

C) I am seriously thinking of abandon my ES witch (crappy dps) in favor of a glass cannon COC because of summoners mobs. And this is the proof of bad bad bad game design

D) when around you there are 4 aurate archers spamming ice arrows, 3-4 undying aristocrats/archivist/cultist (same mobs) spamming freezing pulse... how much will last the protection against chilled of 4 (2*30 charges over 60) flask uses? :/ Too little...
Last edited by Wispo on Mar 5, 2015, 7:33:24 PM
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Wispo wrote:


C) I am seriously thinking of abandon my ES witch (crappy dps) in favor of a glass cannon COC becaus of summoners mobs. And this is the proof of bad bad bad game design.


Yes it is. Certainly, there are some builds that should function better than others, but right now we have one of the most embarrassingly homogenized metagames in PoE's history. AoE, high damage, sustainability. Lose any of those and you're sunk. And as I've argued before, that's fine if you're talking end-game content like maps, but when the core game demands all those, there's something off.



True words. Massive, hard hitting aoe is NEEDED. I ask myself with how much courage they nerfed the hitting power of so many skills, when a single exile must face hordes of mobs (many of them respawning). Surely, a short ranged incinerate or an arc wich chains 5 times... cannot clean a screen of 30+ mobs, let alone the screens in wich there are defilers that raise their arms (resurrection) 2 times per sec -.-
Last edited by Wispo on Mar 5, 2015, 7:37:51 PM
I don't understand GGG's obsession with making content that requires everyone to use a high damage AOE skill just to kill mobs.

A lot of ARPG's don't work like this. For instance in Torchlight 2, the AOE attacks and spells are typically much weaker than the single-target attacks and spells. The AOE skills in TL2 are typically best uses as a supportive type skill to slow or burn the monsters, so that your single-target skills can mop everything up.

Also a really great thing that TL2 does to promote single-target skill usage is the rare monsters are more like mini-bosses in every zone than a rare monster in POE, in TL2 the rares have quite high HP and damage and it takes a bit of time to kill them even with single-target skills. I think invasion bosses and possibly exiles is the closest thing POE has to this type of mechanic, except there are multiple rares in TL2 in zones only a big less than that found in typical POE zones.

The best type of builds in TL2 use AOE skills to weaken then monsters a bit, and then use single target to clean everything up.

POE does the opposite almost. There are strong single-target type skills, such as dual strike, double strike or viper strike, etc. But GGG forces players to use melee splash if a player wants to use such skills cause mob density is balanced around powerful AOE, then on most boss fights the player needs to replace melee splash with another gem, so they can have high single-target again.

Another problem is that most AOE skills in POE don't have strong drawbacks. Normally AOE big drawback is that it is really bad at single-target. A lot of AOE skills in POE don't have that drawback, skills such as Flameblast, Spectral Throw, Fire Trap, Tornado Shot, etc, are both quite strong as AOE and single-target. Arc being the only AOE skill I can think of off the top of my head that is often criticized for it's low single-target damage, which IMO is the exact drawback AOE needs.
"Come along fool, a direct hit to the senses will leave you disconnected."
Last edited by KimchiGirlx3 on Mar 5, 2015, 8:22:14 PM
Just died. In standard ok, but it burns. Nothing to do: the more i try to overcome the bad sides of this game, and the more PoE reminds me that is a shit of a game.

9K ES. 800 ES regen/sec. Granite already up for previdence.

Died in merciless Sceptre of God against THIRTEEN mobs popped out all at once from nowhere in an obstruct space (for GGG, tables, chairs and other shittyes are more important than movement and fluid gameplay...). 6 undying and 7... chimerals!!!! I have had barely the time to pop a quicksilver trying to run away. Now tell me if it is possible to lose, and with that mostruos regen, 9k hit points in barely 2 seconds...

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