6 Linking

"

Its a shit system, 6l can and should be a luxury , FOR ... EVERY .... ONE. not this guy here and this guy there but not that guy that guy gets special day derp. how can one take this game seriously in a competitive light when shit like that can happen.

Hell we have races and pvp and ladder resets, but do you see the top people on the ladder always having 6 links? How exactly do you think they get to have 6 links if its so hard?

Why focus on one aspect of it to try to prove your point when you should be focusing on ALL of the aspects as they relate to 6 linking and the "necessity" you feel they provide?

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Its a shit system, 6l can and should be a luxury , FOR ... EVERY .... ONE. not this guy here and this guy there but not that guy that guy gets special day derp. how can one take this game seriously in a competitive light when shit like that can happen.

Hell we have races and pvp and ladder resets, but do you see the top people on the ladder always having 6 links? How exactly do you think they get to have 6 links if its so hard?

Why focus on one aspect of it to try to prove your point when you should be focusing on ALL of the aspects as they relate to 6 linking and the "necessity" you feel they provide?

again it is not about who should or should not have a 6l i am well aware people can just use a tabby or use a build that doesnt care about 6l. i am not discounting them.


what i am focusing on at the core is that i have an extreme distaste for variable skill progression.

drops are one thing, getting rnged on loot is the bread and butter of arpgs but the skills and stat progression of characters has always been traditionally controllable by the player.

it is a sort of anchor of consistency for progression sure i can get to the end of the game and have truly garbage items i but if i build my character right i can progress.


having the link system tied to rng works directly against it , and the builds that do well with less links are working in spite of a system that should be helping them. i reiterate , in spite of.


again 6l is a luxury. but it doesn't change the fact that some players may get pot luck and go from balanced game-play to being a proverbial dps cannon.

this can be applied to 5l 4l 3l 2l 1l 0l etc. it is fundamental skill progression , it should be fixed with achievable goals not a crap shoot where sometimes you win big and skip all the progression and get to the end instantly or lose and are stuck in a mire going nowhere.

Example: New Year's Eve -- Someone suggested we play Risk. I had figured out this new strategy that I could win the game (with 3+ players) in about a half hour. The game was over in a half hour and I won. The next time I played I tried the same strategy but I lost because almost every single attack failed. Now the odds of that happening are pretty low, significantly less than 1:100. However, THIS GAME IS FAIR AND EQUITABLE in society's view and that is why it is a classic -- It's a good design.

This thread is about crafting a 6-link. It's not about making the drops more fair and equitable. It's not about making the game easier. Those are topics for other threads.

Now, I could have started a thread where a player gets really good drops and wins a race because he got the best drops. Also, I know that really good drops happen to some players out there and those people get a really good advantage over the rest of the field

All, I want to do is access the fckng end-game content and, imo, for my buiild a 6-link is necessary. And I choose to craft it because accessing the end-game content can give really good drops and I want to start accessing it as soon as possible as many people seem to already be doing. I don't want to continue farming 75-78 maps for 1-2 months: I want to be able to try the hard unique maps, Atziri, etc. I want the entire game to be open to me as it should be, imo. I don't have to be successful; but I want a chance at it. And I think a year at trying to do that is too long a time. And I know I can do exactly that with a 6-link because I have ONE in standard.

"

again it is not about who should or should not have a 6l i am well aware people can just use a tabby or use a build that doesnt care about 6l. i am not discounting them.

You sure seem like you are based on the comments in this thread so far.

"

drops are one thing, getting rnged on loot is the bread and butter of arpgs but the skills and stat progression of characters has always been traditionally controllable by the player.

Its RNG on crafting, which IS item progression, whether you like it or not. 6 link doesn't provide your character with more stats or skills, but rather enhances a skill choice (you already made) on overage by 33% more damage.

"

it is a sort of anchor of consistency for progression sure i can get to the end of the game and have truly garbage items i but if i build my character right i can progress.

Nothing in this game takes a 6 link to do, even uber atziri herself can be killed with a 5 link probably even a 4 link. So to say your progression is lacking because you aren't able to 6 link just isn't correct.

"

having the link system tied to rng works directly against it , and the builds that do well with less links are working in spite of a system that should be helping them. i reiterate , in spite of.

Having more links improves any build, as such it should because you have more support gems, but don't dismiss the fact that these support gems come with a cost (mana multiplayer) Links should be RNG based as it is ITEM PROGRESSION, NOT directly character progression, if links were tied to a player\slot then it WOULD BE character progression, but it isn't.

"

again 6l is a luxury. but it doesn't change the fact that some players may get pot luck and go from balanced game-play to being a proverbial dps cannon.

Sorry, on average 33% increase doesn't make a character go from balanced to overpowered DPS, the CoC build would be the best example of a build that really needs every link it can (aka 6 link) as each spell increases damage significantly (more then the average)

"

this can be applied to 5l 4l 3l 2l 1l 0l etc. it is fundamental skill progression , it should be fixed with achievable goals not a crap shoot where sometimes you win big and skip all the progression and get to the end instantly or lose and are stuck in a mire going nowhere.

Its not skill progression, I guess I can't explain this any clearer to you, its item progression. 6 links are cheaper now then they ever have been, you have the option to master craft flat rate, you have the option to buy ones, you can even get lucky and find\buy a corrupted one with your colors (for a steep discount mind you) Its basic itemzation man, don't know how else to it explain it to you.


Aura

"

All, I want to do is access the fckng end-game content and, imo, for my buiild a 6-link is necessary. And I choose to craft it because accessing the end-game content can give really good drops and I want to start accessing it as soon as possible as many people seem to already be doing. I don't want to continue farming 75-78 maps for 1-2 months: I want to be able to try the hard unique maps, Atziri, etc. I want the entire game to be open to me as it should be, imo. I don't have to be successful; but I want a chance at it. And I think a year at trying to do that is too long a time. And I know I can do exactly that with a 6-link because I have ONE in standard.

You must not play the game very much if you are limited to 1 6 link for you in standard. Some of my points I made above especially apply to you.

What build are you doing where a 5 link won't work? Why do you insist on having a 6 link when apparently you don't play the game enough to have multiple ones? Do you play in leagues or in standard? What do you do to gain wealth?

All of these play a factor in why you have trouble getting a six link and every single map in the game can be done with a 5 link or less.


This whole the game isn't accessible crap isn't working with me. 6 links have NEVER BEEN THIS EASY TO GET and plenty of people have them. If you aren't one of them perhaps your goals aren't in line.

Some people are just perverse. It's their nature to be perverse. They misquote things by taking part of a quote and turning its meaning into something that suits their purpose. And sometimes they'll even quote it correctly but ignore the meaning entirely and make it into something else.

Being perverse is a form of trolling and most forums don't allow it. This forum seems to not care if that person has spent enough $$$ with GGG. I'll be damned if I'm going to buy my way into GGG's good graces.

"

aura0000 wrote:

Some people are just perverse. It's their nature to be perverse. They misquote things by taking part of a quote and turning its meaning into something that suits their purpose. And sometimes they'll even quote it correctly but ignore the meaning entirely and make it into something else.

Being perverse is a form of trolling and most forums don't allow it. This forum seems to not care if that person has spent enough $$$ with GGG. I'll be damned if I'm going to buy my way into GGG's good graces.

So rather then try to argue any valid points I may have made you go with the descredit position, its a bold move, lets see if it pays off.

I quoted you exactly, if it was taken out of context in my replay say so, that is what discussion is for, but to call me or anyone else a troll for quoting exactly what you said is asinine.

This forum is moderated by GGG's staff. If you have a problem with the way they do their job I suggest you take it up with Bex or email support to get forwarded to the appropriate people. That being said GGG does not play favorites and allow those that spend lots of money on supporter packs to reign free without moderation. I have been put in my place a few times (although much less recently) as I understand there is no point in breaking the rules to try and prove a point. Even members like Charan have been moderated and edited in the past, if you aren't aware hes spent multiple times what I have on PoE supporter packs.

how is it not skill progression?


it directly affects the power of your skills. it just happens to be tied to item progression as well,

dont take me for a fool , i am upset with it specifically because it is tied to both skill progression AND item progression.

I want it to not be tied to item progression. the very thing you base your argument on is the very thing i want gone. of-course its based on itemization that is its inherent problem.


you dont see runes in diablo three being arbitrarily tied to a slot on your chest piece (in fact they removed that explicitly because they said it was a bad idea) .
you dont see critical synergies between skills based on sockets in diablo 2.

nor do you see it in titan quest or many other arpgs with a skill system.


there is fine line between having gear affect skills in subtle ways like crit chance here a +1 level there or cast speed / spell damage. which pretty much every arpg does

and it is a completely different matter for the items to dictate core features of a skill.

once that happens then the character loses much of its innate personality. It is not your passives that make your character , it is your items .. its basically a different path taken to get to the same damn issue diablo 3 had , your character is your gear.


and ofcourse you can argue that it is easy to get similar links on other items in the small scale ( 4l etc) , that is not the point. the point is in order to change items or progress you have roll the same links or you don't have a build period.

...so the solution is?

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

how is it not skill progression?


it directly affects the power of your skills. it just happens to be tied to item progression as well,

dont take me for a fool , i am upset with it specifically because it is tied to both skill progression AND item progression.

I want it to not be tied to item progression. the very thing you base your argument on is the very thing i want gone. of-course its based on itemization that is its inherent problem.


you dont see runes in diablo three being arbitrarily tied to a slot on your chest piece (in fact they removed that explicitly because they said it was a bad idea) .
you dont see critical synergies between skills based on sockets in diablo 2.

nor do you see it in titan quest or many other arpgs with a skill system.


there is fine line between having gear affect skills in subtle ways like crit chance here a +1 level there or cast speed / spell damage. which pretty much every arpg does

and it is a completely different matter for the items to dictate core features of a skill.

once that happens then the character loses much of its innate personality. It is not your passives that make your character , it is your items .. its basically a different path taken to get to the same damn issue diablo 3 had , your character is your gear.


and ofcourse you can argue that it is easy to get similar links on other items in the small scale ( 4l etc) , that is not the point. the point is in order to change items or progress you have roll the same links or you don't have a build period.

Ah ha, now we can have a legitimate discussion.

I was taking the position that, imo, this is the way the game is and how it might be better in those terms. It seems that you are taking the position that the whole concept is bad as the number of links defines the character more than the passives and base equipment or that the character is entirely (or significantly) changed with more links and adding more gems. I agree with your position entirely as the 6th link will actually redefine my character. But in the current state of the game, that is exactly what I need in order to be more successful accessing end-game content. I just think that there should be a fairer or more equitable way of getting there.

If I have jumped to the wrong conclusion, I apologize profusely and will correct my post in future additions.

...such as?