10 unqiues that are in need of renewal, badly

^ IMHO, Terminus Est is a fine leveling unique. It's a strong stopgap between finishing A3M and starting to map, and that's fine.

To actually build around it, I don't think it needs crit chance, just a larger variance in its local attack speed roll. You could get by with ~20% chance to crit if some rarer versions of the sword attacked around 1.7-1.8 times per second.

EDIT: I walked away and immediately thought "Oh shit.." So, while I believe greater variance in attack speed could push this sword more towards "build around this" as an item, it completely contradicts the theme of an executioner's sword. Maybe, for thematic purposes, it could have a downright slow attack speed (one steady strike...) but in turn be given outrageous crit chance (...to the neck). But... that's getting into some retcon territory, and I doubt that's likely to happen ^-^

Same treatment for Rebuke, plus drop its level a bit. It could be useful as is, for a few levels anyways, if it was available sooner. For those rarer ones that drop with up to (I'd say) ~1.9 APS, they could be useful into mapping level even. No matter what, though, this is just a shitty rare ele sword made unique, so will always be trumped by a better rare ele sword. At least the APS could carry it a bit.

(And while I'm editing...)
v---That's an interesting point, raics---v

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pneuma wrote:

Thematically, Hyrri is not a Marauder.

You know, I wanted to discuss that at some time. The way I see it is that character's location on passive tree represents his 'background', 'basic training' and 'affinity', while passive points they put in are his 'mastery' that turns them into a finished product as a warrior. So, a shadow can master critting with daggers easier than a marauder because he has affinity, proper build and familiarity, he can also master 2H weapons but it will take more effort for him than for mara.

So, according to lore, if Hyrri was a part of Kaom's army and needed to go elsewhere to perfect her archery, that probably means they held archery in little regard and she received standard Karui martial training until then, conditioning and the like. So, she may have had talent but wasn't raised as an archer which means I'd place her starting point no further to the right than a duelist.

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raics wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

Thematically, Hyrri is not a Marauder.

You know, I wanted to discuss that at some time. The way I see it is that character's location on passive tree represents his 'background', 'basic training' and 'affinity', while passive points they put in are his 'mastery' that turns them into a finished product as a warrior. So, a shadow can master critting with daggers easier than a marauder because he has affinity, proper build and familiarity, he can also master 2H weapons but it will take more effort for him than for mara.

So, according to lore, if Hyrri was a part of Kaom's army and needed to go elsewhere to perfect her archery, that probably means they held archery in little regard and she received standard Karui martial training until then, conditioning and the like. So, she may have had talent but wasn't raised as an archer which means I'd place her starting point no further to the right than a duelist.

I'm specifically thinking of the old background image that we used to have that had Kaom and Hyrri in picture form.

Kaom was as he looks now with that puffed out armor, huge boots, and a flaming head. The 3d art on his uniques definitely fit the original vision.

Hyrri was a thin, short person with green sparks shooting out of his/her skin (behind Hyrri's Ire body armor with the pauldron and the strap across the chest) and out the top of his/her head. Definitely somewhere between a shadow and a ranger.

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pneuma wrote:

Hyrri was a thin, short person with green sparks shooting out of his/her skin (behind Hyrri's Ire body armor with the pauldron and the strap across the chest) and out the top of his/her head. Definitely somewhere between a shadow and a ranger.

Yeah, I remember the background, beside Kaom in his full armor anyone would look scrawny, especially a woman. Well, if she was even remotely like Maramoa I doubt she was built as slight as a ranger.

Her build aside, it stands that among the Karui there was nobody around who could teach her archery so I still think she received the traditional training in youth.

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VictorDoom wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

I wonder what is the purpose that you see for Rigvald's Charge that you don't see for Terminus Est? They are very similar to each other, just separated by about 5 levels. Of the two, I honestly think Terminus is better.

i ddint say terminus is bad, i said it goes against its design goal of critting, thats why its on this list because its badly designed.

So Terminus is badly designed because it has a purpose it doesn't fulfill, whereas Rigvald's is better designed because it doesn't have a purpose?

Tell me where I'm wrong.
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Rigvald%27s_Charge
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Terminus_Est

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raics wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

Hyrri was a thin, short person with green sparks shooting out of his/her skin (behind Hyrri's Ire body armor with the pauldron and the strap across the chest) and out the top of his/her head. Definitely somewhere between a shadow and a ranger.

Yeah, I remember the background, beside Kaom in his full armor anyone would look scrawny, especially a woman. Well, if she was even remotely like Maramoa I doubt she was built as slight as a ranger.

Her build aside, it stands that among the Karui there was nobody around who could teach her archery so I still think she received the traditional training in youth.

I think I read somewhere that hyrri was the first woman karui to transcend the traditional karui woman's place and become a warrior. I don't think karui women trained until her, especially in the traditional weapons, which sort of fits with her having to go abroad to learn.

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

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VictorDoom wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

I wonder what is the purpose that you see for Rigvald's Charge that you don't see for Terminus Est? They are very similar to each other, just separated by about 5 levels. Of the two, I honestly think Terminus is better.

i ddint say terminus is bad, i said it goes against its design goal of critting, thats why its on this list because its badly designed.

So Terminus is badly designed because it has a purpose it doesn't fulfill, whereas Rigvald's is better designed because it doesn't have a purpose?

Tell me where I'm wrong.
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Rigvald%27s_Charge
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Terminus_Est

Main difference here is that Terminus has a unique modifier "Gain a frenzy charge on critical strike" while Rigvald has, well, nothing except being better than a rare in raw stats.

So Terminus should allow us to capitalize on its interesting unique modifier to make or enhance a build, but its other stats don't really allow it, making it a fail in its design.
It's like having a unique sword giving us "+10 max power charge" but at the same time giving it 0.5% chance to crit : the modifier seems great but you can't use it in reality.

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Xtorma wrote:

I think I read somewhere that hyrri was the first woman karui to transcend the traditional karui woman's place and become a warrior. I don't think karui women trained until her, especially in the traditional weapons, which sort of fits with her having to go abroad to learn.

It's possible, I guess, we only know for certain that Karui warriors were traditionally banned from using projectile weapons, probably because they thought it the mark of a coward. That apparently wasn't a problem for women, either because female warriors were so rare their shamans haven't bothered including them in the rulebook or because being a female warrior held no spiritual significance.

However, Maramoa. She looks like a proper Karui warrior and has tattoos to show she has completed some of the battlefield rites that Haku mentions, so either rules got relaxed or forgotten after years of slavery, or it was possible to be an anointed warrior as a female, if unusual.

Heh, we're suffering from a bit of info starvation here. It would be very amusing if that particular piece of info turns out not to exist in the first place. :)

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

So Terminus is badly designed because it has a purpose it doesn't fulfill, whereas Rigvald's is better designed because it doesn't have a purpose?

Yes, exactly, Rigvald is a straight levelling item and Terminus serves as one because its special property doesn't work very well.

What I suggested once is having a crit weapon lineup in every weapon category even if it isn't a crit weapon by default, like we have with death - decimation - harbinger bow. For 2H swords it could be the ornate sword line and that would also solve the terminus problem.

Before you think I'm nuts, I also suggested severely penalizing raw dps output of such weapons, by 30% at least, so I think it wouldn't be a gamebreaking change. It's one of the cardinal rules of good balance, if it offers special properties - dps must suffer relative to the value of the property.

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raics wrote:

What I suggested once is having a crit weapon lineup in every weapon category even if it isn't a crit weapon by default, like we have with death - decimation - harbinger bow. For 2H swords it could be the ornate sword line and that would also solve the terminus problem.

Before you think I'm nuts, I also suggested severely penalizing raw dps output of such weapons, by 30% at least, so I think it wouldn't be a gamebreaking change. It's one of the cardinal rules of good balance, if it offers special properties - dps must suffer relative to the value of the property.

I suggested the same thing long ago and i also suggested it for spells.

Then you could have raw dps spells with interesting modifiers BUT unable to crit in itself. And on the other hand you would have high crit low dps spells that would benefit from the direct status ailments and crit effects.(multiplier, surgeons)

The damage could be scaled appropriately and it would allow for a variety of interesting modifiers on
non-crit spells without turning into game-breaking components.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Boem wrote:

Then you could have raw dps spells with interesting modifiers BUT unable to crit in itself. And on the other hand you would have high crit low dps spells that would benefit from the direct status ailments and crit effects.(multiplier, surgeons)

Yeah, I was thinking about that too but thought it would limit caster options, crit spells would suck too much if played without crit and you wouldn't want to play a non-crit spell with a char that is located in a crit-rich area like Shadow. Yeah, we kinda have that currently with some spells but the line is still blurry enough.

Weapons are a bit more flexible in that aspect, you would be able to play a 2H sword cleave crit or no crit, both versions would be possible with the appropriate weapon but if you want to play a crit spell without crit it might be a tall order.