10 unqiues that are in need of renewal, badly

^you gotta combine it with mon-treguls obviously and run a purity aura to give them just enough resistances to get up close and say "boem".

Mali lens is fine, it's a build enabling item with a niche function that works in a few dedicated builds designed to utilize it. Fit's a "unique" perfectly. Most of the other items on the list i could agree with.

Hyri's ire being one of the main offenders mainly because of how old it is and the lack of a revision of it.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
We had one of these pre-1.3.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1107966

What we gathered was

- Hrimonor's Resolve
- Essentia's Sanguis
- Lightbane Raiment
- Hyrri's Ire
- Immortal Flesh - This one actually got buffed quite some.
- Rebuke of the Vaal
- The Magnate
- Chalice of Horrors
- Darkscorn
- Marylene's Fallacy
- Ambu's Charge


And potential runner ups
- Oro's Sacrifice
- Dyadus
- Bronn's Lithe
- Cherrubim's Maleficence
- Jaws of Agony
"
Grughal wrote:
We had one of these pre-1.3.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1107966

What we gathered was

- Hrimonor's Resolve
- Essentia's Sanguis
- Lightbane Raiment
- Hyrri's Ire
- Immortal Flesh - This one actually got buffed quite some.
- Rebuke of the Vaal
- The Magnate
- Chalice of Horrors
- Darkscorn
- Marylene's Fallacy
- Ambu's Charge


And potential runner ups
- Oro's Sacrifice
- Dyadus
- Bronn's Lithe
- Cherrubim's Maleficence
- Jaws of Agony


yea i acutally looked through those, i looked through all unqiues, all of them can be used for something, apart from the ones posted here, to expand:
I carve and sell real animal skulls, check out my work here: https://www.instagram.com/victorseiche/
https://www.facebook.com/victorseicheart/
World first Uber Atziri as 2h and 2h RT build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1058950
Highest level char in Closed Beta, Wytchfindergeneral
Last edited by VictorDoom on Jan 26, 2015, 7:13:34 AM
"
VictorDoom wrote:
"
Grughal wrote:
We had one of these pre-1.3.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1107966

What we gathered was

- Hrimonor's Resolve
- Essentia's Sanguis
- Lightbane Raiment
- Hyrri's Ire
- Immortal Flesh - This one actually got buffed quite some.
- Rebuke of the Vaal
- The Magnate
- Chalice of Horrors
- Darkscorn
- Marylene's Fallacy
- Ambu's Charge


And potential runner ups
- Oro's Sacrifice
- Dyadus
- Bronn's Lithe
- Cherrubim's Maleficence
- Jaws of Agony


yea i acutally looked through those, i looked through all unqiues, all of them can be used for something


Give me a reason to ever use Ambu's Charge, Lightbane Raiment or Hrimnor's Resolve. Magnate is also badly outdated with Atziri belts and Rustic Sash -buff and such. And Chalice of Horrors - usable? In what world?

If usable for you means subpar to average rare of same level, take Terminus Est off this list as well.
"
Grughal wrote:
"
VictorDoom wrote:
"
Grughal wrote:
We had one of these pre-1.3.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1107966

What we gathered was

- Hrimonor's Resolve
- Essentia's Sanguis
- Lightbane Raiment
- Hyrri's Ire
- Immortal Flesh - This one actually got buffed quite some.
- Rebuke of the Vaal
- The Magnate
- Chalice of Horrors
- Darkscorn
- Marylene's Fallacy
- Ambu's Charge


And potential runner ups
- Oro's Sacrifice
- Dyadus
- Bronn's Lithe
- Cherrubim's Maleficence
- Jaws of Agony


yea i acutally looked through those, i looked through all unqiues, all of them can be used for something


Give me a reason to ever use Ambu's Charge, Lightbane Raiment or Hrimnor's Resolve. Magnate is also badly outdated with Atziri belts and Rustic Sash -buff and such. And Chalice of Horrors - usable? In what world?

If usable for you means subpar to average rare of same level, take Terminus Est off this list as well.


You dont take into account the required level of these items, you just look at all of them and think what endgame build i can do with them, but imagine finding an ambus or lightbane at level 40, theyre pretty nice.



Hyrmnors has some nice unique mods, and the fire damage is actually pretty nice for fire/prolif builds that dont mind sacrificing life. i actually thought about adding it, but im still not sure that fire dmg is worth it, since i havent used it for a long time

Lightbane is a level 47 armor, its good for that level, the desecrated ground is nice for that level, its even been buffed to 100% proc rate on block, its a good DoT leveling armor if thats what youre going for, and thats what it was meant to be.

Magnate, level 16 belt, has 40% IPD(50% with the str), 50 strength, 50% flask charges gained(a very strong mod), its useful if you can afford to lose life resists for phys builds and for level 16, those are some damn nice mods. And youre comapring a level 16 belt to a level 68 belt, if that comparison is even worth making its damn good sign that its a good belt

immortal flesh is actually nice, especially for some very spicific builds or just doing mf runs in lower areas.

Chalice of horrors, level 29 shield, +1 curse with double curse duration and nice evasion too. thats pretty strong for level 29, it also has the second highest block chance in game(same as perandus post nerf). Its also used in combination with shackles of the wretched to do those curse reflect builds on you, weird builds but theyre fun.

Ambus, again, level 43 armor, 10% all rez, life regen on low life so it saves if youre in trouble and most importantly, free conduit for endu charges, if you find this in a party its very nice to wear.

Dyaydus has some really speficif builds that do acutally work with it, its not a best in slot weapon, but its fun,just like pillar of the caged god, its still a usabel unique and its doing the thing it was designed to do.

Bronns has been used effectively with movement builds, its actually a nice armor.

I dont understand how cherrubium would even be considered close to a bad unqiue, 100 life, 1k eva + 1k armor, and 2 unqiue mods, increased chaos damage and life leech rate increase by 30%, without a single downside, this armor is very nice, its designed purely around voltaxic builds, and it works amazing with them.

Jaws of agony, again, not bad at all, a bunch of very nice mods and some unqiue mods without a single downside, its a good shield for trappers.


Terminus est goes against its design goal, like oros, thats why they are on the list, not because they're unusable, because they can not do what they were designed to do. i didnt word the last reply very well, sorry
I carve and sell real animal skulls, check out my work here: https://www.instagram.com/victorseiche/
https://www.facebook.com/victorseicheart/
World first Uber Atziri as 2h and 2h RT build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1058950
Highest level char in Closed Beta, Wytchfindergeneral
Last edited by VictorDoom on Jan 26, 2015, 8:04:39 AM
"
Boem wrote:
^you gotta combine it with mon-treguls obviously and run a purity aura to give them just enough resistances to get up close and say "boem".

Mali lens is fine, it's a build enabling item with a niche function that works in a few dedicated builds designed to utilize it. Fit's a "unique" perfectly. Most of the other items on the list i could agree with.

Hyri's ire being one of the main offenders mainly because of how old it is and the lack of a revision of it.

Peace,

-Boem-


If a level 43 sheild needs a level 67 scepter to work, shit's busted, yo.

I've got every minion node in the tree, running +life and +ele resistances on my zombies and while they're not 20/20 gems, my zombies still have something like -10 - -20% allres. 5000 hp doesn't help them when even a whitemob smacks them for ~1000 with spark.

I love this sheild in principal, but man that drawback is CRIPPLING! A single white voidbearer kills all 15 of my minions in under a second.
Sure - it needs a drawback, it's got a really strong mod on it - but -150% combined resistance is not a drawback, it's a shotgun to both kneecaps. 2% is not worth it. 20% wouldn't be worth it. There is NO reason to use this thing, it's far too heavily penalized
"But we still had a lot of fun, please don't think this comes from hate.
We bitch because we like you and we want you to be great!" ~Miracle of Sound
^Your using minion instability i hope? So at least your blowing up that voidbearer if hes killing your minions.

This unique is designed imo to create a new minion-instability play-style, based on faster casting etc. a suicide death squad sort of speak that is forced to die to serve there master, only to be quickly re-summoned.

Dying fast on this shield is a drawback and a buff, since it enables faster healing, couple this with echo-zombie's for example and echo descrate ground and your blowing up/healing at a fast rate.

Which imo is the purpose of this shield.

Peace,

-Boem-
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
Last edited by Boem on Jan 26, 2015, 7:58:20 AM
"
VictorDoom wrote:


You dont take into account the required level of these items, you just look at all of them and think what endgame build i can do with them, but imagine finding an ambus or lightbane at level 40, theyre pretty nice.


No, not really, we really did think of the required levels. Both of those armors are bad at 40s nowadays (compare to Belly of the Beast for example and more recent unique armors, even Chilltomb rocks them out of the boat) and there are several really nice lower level unique armors that are a lot better still at 40s than these two are (such as Cloak of Flames, Solaris Lorica, even Foxshade).

The DoT-argument was true before Desecrate got introduced and they changed the armor effect into the skill gem version, now it just sucks. The 2% (fucking two percent) on Ambu's ONLY on low life really makes no difference and 10% all resi is 30% total resi which is craftable through masters on any rare armor of that level. Even most magic armors with 2 good rolls would outperform Ambu's at the levels it requires to use. No pass for either of these armors.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

Hyrmnors has some nice unique mods, and the fire damage is actually pretty nice for fire/prolif builds that dont mind sacrificing life. i actually thought about adding it, but im still not sure that fire dmg is worth it, since i havent used it for a long time


So you didn't even try it? I actually, not worth it. In any case, tou're giving up too much for just a slight Fire damage boost.

More precisely, from that other thread
"
This unique helmet has something unique in it, which are the chance to avoid chill and frozen and the extra fire damage. However, the fire damage isn't enough to make a difference in fire builds to choose this over any decent rare helmet and the 50% chance to avoid freeze doesn't make a noticeable difference either (compare to Alpha's Howl, for example). Chill mainly occurs from things such as freezing ground or Arctic Armor and this doesn't save you from that either (unlike Icetomb does). The item level requirement on it also doesn't make it to fall into "leveling fire build helmet"-category (which would be very, very niche even if it did) so that doesn't save it either.

It could be viable option if this was on am evasion base item, then you could pick Crystal Skin and the previous nodes leading to it from passive tree (on the evasion side of the tree) to achieve a 100% chance to avoid freeze and chill. Also, adding some more fire damage or even better, some % chance to ignite and/or ignite duration would make it perfectly viable option for some builds.



"
VictorDoom wrote:

Lightbane is a level 47 armor, its good for that level, the desecrated ground is nice for that level, its even been buffed to 100% proc rate on block, its a good DoT leveling armor if thats what youre going for, and thats what it was meant to be.

Magnate, level 16 belt, has 40% IPD(50% with the str), 50 strength, 50% flask charges gained(a very strong mod), its useful if you can afford to lose life resists for phys builds and for level 16, those are some damn nice mods. And youre comapring a level 16 belt to a level 68 belt, if that comparison is even worth making its damn good sign that its a good belt


I already covered Lightbane slightly... Magnate is shit compared to any rustic with a life or resistance on it. Yeah, it's low level but so is Meginord and it blows the shit out of Magnate. What I meant with "outdated with Atziri belts and Rustic -buff" wasn't that they're comparable (not even close), I meant that at least previously Magnate had something (being the ultimate no.1 phys damage belt) for niche CI flickers or something but now it really has no reason to exist as it is.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

immortal flesh is actually nice, especially for some very spicific builds or just doing mf runs in lower areas.


It's a really good belt now.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

Chalice of horrors, level 29 shield, +1 curse with double curse duration and nice evasion too. thats pretty strong for level 29, it also has the second highest block chance in game(same as perandus post nerf). Its also used in combination with shackles of the wretched to do those curse reflect builds on you, weird builds but theyre fun.


No pass, no one ever uses Curse duration, especially at level 29. It's not +1 curse, it's +1 to LEVEL of curses within the shield. It's not going to do anything significant, nothing you would notice in your gameplay. Its evasion isn't any good and it's definately not worth using as a leveling shield with Perandus and Titucus Span around. Why would anyone ever use this shield over any other shield even in those Shackles selfcursing builds? The 100% duration is never worth a shield slot.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

Ambus, again, level 43 armor, 10% all rez, life regen on low life so it saves if youre in trouble and most importantly, free conduit for endu charges, if you find this in a party its very nice to wear.

Dyaydus has some really speficif builds that do acutally work with it, its not a best in slot weapon, but its fun,just like pillar of the caged god, its still a usabel unique and its doing the thing it was designed to do.


Okay, I covered Ambu's earlier as well... The "runner ups" (Dyadus was one of these) were considered items with really niche uses so we kinda agree on Dyadus. However when you consider the item level of Dyadus (69 holy fek?) and the rarity of it (it is kinda rare, I think dllr said "it's just below Kaoms") and the strengths of the builds done with it, it's a really lackluster item. Needs some love.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

Bronns has been used effectively with movement builds, its actually a nice armor.


Like 3-4 years ago? Maybe. Nowadays, no build ever sacrifises a chest slot for 10% move speed and some attack speed. EVER. Also, if you want to maximize move speed for evasion build, you go for Queen of the Forest (which btw has almost 2x the evasion of Bronns, life, triple resistances and -flat damage from animals).

"
VictorDoom wrote:

I dont understand how cherrubium would even be considered close to a bad unqiue, 100 life, 1k eva + 1k armor, and 2 unqiue mods, increased chaos damage and life leech rate increase by 30%, without a single downside, this armor is very nice, its designed purely around voltaxic builds, and it works amazing with them.

Jaws of agony, again, not bad at all, a bunch of very nice mods and some unqiue mods without a single downside, its a good shield for trappers.


Again, those were both runner ups so they have their value of use. However think about power they provide against rarity and required item level.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

Terminus est goes against its design goal, like oros, thats why they are on the list, not because they're unusable, because they can not do what they were designed to do. i didnt word the last reply very well, sorry


I'd argue Cherrubims and Jaws of Agony go against their design goals too.

Cherrubim is an okay armor but it doesn't help PA builds or Voltaixic builds for shit (or "fast leech" builds, lol, who wants that when instant leech exists?). It's just a boring, glorified rare (without resistance). No one would ever use it over Coil, Cloak, Kaoms, Shavs, Queen, Volls, Vis Mortis etc etc. It lacks something that truly makes it stand out, hence it failed to fulfil the design goal.

Jaws of Agony's design intentions trap builds a way to gain and maintain Power Charges. Ever played a trap build with one? I did, it doesn't do that, too low chance to proc it. It's kinda like the endurance charge generator on BoR used to be. Giving up shit tons of spell damage and/or crit (and es, most trap builds run EB) for this is never worth it. Also it's kinda rare and its required level suggests that it is an endgame shield. Some people have succesfully used in it Shockwave Totem builds but as you said, unique should do what it was designed to do.

***

Anyway, I really think a lot more of these "forgotten" uniques deserve a lot more attention from GGG (other than slight flat buff in some values like they did on 1.0 for some of them) and I appreciate this thread and your effort to create it.

There hasn't been released a single unique that really changes the gameplay (like Facebreakers, 3 dragons, both Voll's, even Mjolnir) in a long time. Even something that makes itemization different like Doomfletch (awesome bow, so underestimated), WoE, Cybils etc. have been very rare lately. Sad. I think your sword was cool btw, didn't play around with it yet but I will later this year.
it doesnt matter that a rare is better than lightbane or ambus,they still do what they were suppoused to do, lightbane is good for leveling a a DoT char and it works real nice. ambus is very good in parties, especially in HC at lower levels for chars that dont go all the way to conduit and want to help their party when leveling.

i did use hrymnors, i used on my first ever character and it was nice, but Hrymnors might be bad now with the introduction of all the sweet elemental nodes i dont think the fire damage is necesarry, so i think ill re-add that one.

Again, magnate, level 16 belt, has 3 awesome mods, absoutely nothing to say against that unqiue, 50 str is 25 life, at low levels tehres no way you can get much better belts, meginords doesnt have flask gain, an extremely underrated mod, and some builds do actually benefit from the IPD a lot, like bear traps, EK, shockwave totem etc. all of these are much better off with a magnate rather than a meignords.
Especially when leveling.

I know chalice of horrors is not an additional curse, its +1 curse gem, meaning your gem gets another level, double duration is really good, especially considering in the low levels courses have shitty duration, i would use this shield over perandus or titicus just because you dont need that much defenses when youre leveling, it has enough block chance and eva, and it will give you better damage/levleing speed just because of the curse, its an offensive alternative to those shields.

Bronns lithe can still be used, you get +2 levels to any movement skill(theres a lot of them), i like that armor a lot, it doesnt have any life ore resists but the evasion is decent, especially for its level, and the possibilities are very fun.


Cherrubium is honestly one of the best armors to use with volatxic builds, it was just designed specifically around volatxic, nothing else, you dont need instant leech with volta because there is no reflected damage, getting VP is stupid, and you also dont go crit with voltaxic so even acuities arent useful.
Thus the faster leech rate is amazing. It does exactly what it is supposed to do.



Just to prove that Jaws of Agony does what its suppoused to do,you had to use multiple traps linked to trap to make it work, this guy is at full power charges constantly by just using it with multiple traps( also spell damage doesnt affect bear trap, which is obviously what this shield was made for, so its actually really good with bear trap.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPComxzEmw

some people just didnt know how to build around it or how it works so they instantly assume its bad, like with most unqiues...
I carve and sell real animal skulls, check out my work here: https://www.instagram.com/victorseiche/
https://www.facebook.com/victorseicheart/
World first Uber Atziri as 2h and 2h RT build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1058950
Highest level char in Closed Beta, Wytchfindergeneral
Last edited by VictorDoom on Jan 26, 2015, 10:04:07 AM
"
VictorDoom wrote:
Again it doesnt matter that a rare is better than lightbane or ambus,they still do what they were suppoused to do, lightbane is good for leveling a a DoT char, ambus is very nice in parties, especially in HC, for marauders that dont go all the way to conduit and want to help their party when leveling.


Right, when the things they were meant to do actually no longer exist? Lightbane was used like that and even in endgame on niche builds before the changes, now no one ever uses it. There's a reason for it.

Same can be said for Ambu's, when it was released the game was very different and I think it could have been used in lowlife RF back then at least, it no longer has that purpose even if it theoretically has some (share EC with party members, even if we have Conduit), no one ever uses it and it's a shame. It could even share ECs with allies so it would be a very good choice for Animate Guardian like Zahndethus' Cassock is.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

i did use hrymnors, i used on my first ever character and it was pretty damn sweet, but Hrymnors might be bad now with the introduction of all the sweet elemental nodes i dont think the fire damage is necesarry, so i think ill re-add that one.


Right, it got power creeped bad.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

Again, magnate, level 16 belt, has 3 awesome mods, absoutely nothing to say against that unqiue, 50 str is 25 life, at low levels tehres no way you can get much better belts, meginords doesnt have flask gain, an extremely underrated mod, and some builds do actually benefit from the IPD a lot, like bear traps, EK, shockwave totem etc. all of these are much better off with a magnate rather than a meignords.
Especially when leveling.


Power creeped as well. All those builds are so much better off with Rustic Sash. Just saying.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

I know chalice of horrors is not an additional curse, its +1 curse gem, meaning your gem gets another level, double duration is really good, especially considering in the low levels courses have shitty duration, i would use this shield over perandus or titicus just because you dont need that much defenses when youre leveling, it has enough block chance and eva, and it will give you better damage/levleing speed just because of the curse, its an offensive alternative to those shields.


I'm pretty sure you don't need curse duration either when leveling (you argued you don't need defenses when leveling?). If stuff doesn't die in 6 seconds when leveling, you're doing it wrong. At least add Curse Radius then since that's annoying as hell when using low level curses (solved with Curse on Hit tho).

"
VictorDoom wrote:

Bronns lithe can still be used, you get +2 levels to any movement skill(theres a lot of them), i like that armor a lot, it doesnt have any life ore resists but the evasion is decent, especially for its level, and the possibilities are very fun.


+2 to movement skills means nothing except for Lightning Warp. Theoretically it could used for LW totems build or something but then there's the attack speed and socket colors would be kinda hard to hit etc... Very minor movement speed and ias buff hardly open any possibilities.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

Cherrubium is honestly one of the best armors to use with volatxic builds, ti was just designed specifically around volatxic, you dont need instant leech with volta because there is no reflected damage, getting VP is stupid.
Thus the faster leech rate is amazing.


I know how it was designed, I read it too hence I mentioned the voltaixic. However, for any life based Voltaixic, Coil is more defensive (most likely more offensive too with the flat light damage on it) and since there's no need for slightly faster leech either really. It's a really high level armor and rare enough to provide something more.

"
VictorDoom wrote:

Jaws of agony is good, it should proc decently with multiple traps. also spell damage doesnt affect bear trap, which is obviously what this shield was made for and why youd be better off with it than a spelldmg/es shield.

Just to prove that jaws of agony does what its suppoused to do, and you didnt build around it correctly, this guy is at full power charges constantly by just using it with multiple traps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phPComxzEmw


Yeah, I didn't use multitrap. Does it work that way? Multitrap is a support gem so I thought it'd still count as just 1 "cast". And yes, Bear Trap doesn't scale off spell damage but every trapper (like in the video) uses mainly traps that do scale off spell damage and crit. Would it be OP if the chance was 30% ?

***

Do you really think all these uniques we discussed here are fine as they are and well balanced, thus buffing them could potentially lead into OP broken items? I can see the points you make but I can't see why you would defy changing these items or buffing them to match the recent uniques. Powercreep has really made a lot of items look bad when they were really good some year(s) ago (Magnate, Hrimnors for example).

EDIT:
"
VictorDoom wrote:
some people just didnt know how to build around it or how it works so they instantly assume its bad, like with most unqiues...


Oh please, I've been playing enough and with enough many uniques to know when actually "building around an item" (one of the mentioned uniques) is just a hindrance for your build rather than actually benefitting your build.

Also I could mention Veil of the Night doesn't belong on the list since it does exactly what it was designed for.
Last edited by Grughal on Jan 26, 2015, 10:17:21 AM

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