Look GGG, another armor thread

Actually I'd be pretty happy if they start with Armor being able to reduce damage of 1 shot attacks / big hits. Well you know, so I can actually survive and have time to log out, specially HC players from desyncing 5 screens off and mauled by enemies they cannot see.
"Get rich or die grinding"

Lvl 100 Ascendant - RadioactiveSago: HIGHEST KB tooltiplordz in all of PoE (view-thread/1636451)
Lvl 100 Assassin - Chonkeyy: Omnislasher 2 mil DPS Flicker Build (view-thread/1571744)
Think Armour is good? Think again.

From flask thread:
"
Just did some calculations:



= Real 59.5% Physical Mitigation (this occurs before any other mitigation is calculated if I'm not mistaken).
During which time you will also be immune to shock and able to avoid some freeze/chills that might take place. (Unlikely with 85%+ Cold Res)

51.0% with current generation Lightning Coil

EDIT:
As always; this scales with clear speed ;)


Lets have a look at how much armour you will need to achieve similar mitigation against a 5k hit (Uber Atziri Spear Attack is roughly around 5k as far as I can tell).

59.5% = 88,148.15 Armour
51.0% = 62,448.98 Armour

Pretty hard to achieve numbers right? Meanwhile Coil + Flask users get the added benefit of beefed up maximum resistances, and probably some status ailment immunity too.

Calculations
Damage Reduction Factor = Armour / (Armour + (12*Damage))
88148.15 / (88148.15+(12*5000)) = 0.5950

Armour = (Damage Reduction Factor * (12 * Damage)) * (1/(1 - Damage Reduction Factor))

I would have liked to post in this thread, but whatever.


Conclusions:
Nerfs (not buffs) be coming :_(

More calculations: Taste of Hate on its own equates to 20,536.91 Armour in the same situation (0.255 Damage Reduction Factor). But granites are nice......

EDITS: Formatting.
IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde
It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle.
You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta.
Last edited by Ashen_Shugar_IV on Jan 28, 2015, 4:51:43 AM
In response to my above post (for visibility):

Where is the "Double Armour against Projectile Attacks" Keystone? Well, where is it?!
IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde
It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle.
You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta.
sry but your example is misleading.

60k armour, alone, ok... well with a granite flask up proper armour builds can get 60k armour, seeing as you are comparing it to a coil setup with a flask up. Do coil evasion builds have soul of steel + 6 or 7 endurance charges? No, they probably have 3.

7 endurance charges + soul of steel = 32% phys damage resist + granite of iron skin giving you 40-60k armour and then why is the armour character not using the saphire flask too?

Why would armour do all that by itself when you can stack it with all those other things? They are expecting you to layer it. Evasion on its own, its shit, with ondars and acro and phase acro and coil and taste of hate its great, why are you judging armour without endurance charges, granite flask, soul of steel, taste of hate etc?

Armour is fine you just dont get how to use it.



"
MegaTen_IV wrote:
What I liked about Diablo 3 was that with high evasion you could dodge spells and armor reduced all damage including elemental damage and spells. Here you have 75 % elemental rezistances and thats it :-/ It really sucks to be melee in this game. I played several melee characters ( I prefer melee aswell ) but comapred to ranged characters they are just too weak, especially defense wise.



imo one of the worst things about d3, but each to their own. Dont think about what damage types you are facing, just stack armour and all res and it works against everything... thats just so... wrong, simplified, boring, ditch all the mechanics and thought behind everything and make a braindead game for people who dont like to think.

Melee chars have way better defense than ranged, I think you were probably playing bad melee builds or not playing them right.
"
In response to my above post (for visibility):

Where is the "Double Armour against Projectile Attacks" Keystone? Well, where is it?!


why do you need one? Get ondars, why wouldnt you get ondars?
3 items, 0 Passives = >80k armour

Why would I want to be "a proper armour build" when I can achieve true 59.5% physical mitigation with these three items?

Should I include endurance charges? We are talking about Armour. Anyone can get +1 from Merciless Oak (without sacrificing much at all), and another +1 from a belt corruption (much harder, but possible).

Edit: Of course Taste of Hate actually has great synergy with Armour builds, but its still awesome free mitigation for everyone else.
IGN: Victory_Or_Sovngarde
It's not a 13 week development cycle, it's a 13 week supporter-pack cycle.
You can play any build you want, as long as it's the current meta.
Last edited by Ashen_Shugar_IV on Jan 28, 2015, 7:32:55 AM
You play armor and want projectile mitigation? Use that unique shield.

It is like every evasion player asking that evasion be able to apply to physical spells (just like armor applies to physical spells). They each have pros and cons so stop asking for everything to be given to you on a gold platter.

Lightning Coil and Taste of Hate were introduced specifically to BUFF armor. You are supposed to use them to help your armor mitigation.

Same reason why endurance charges are all on the ARMOR side of the tree. Take them.

There is no such thing as a "proper armor build". FFS use what the game gives you. Trying to play "pure armor" is like trying to play pure evasion with no Acro.

Here are some other things that were made to buff armor:
- Aegis Aurora
- Molten Shell
- Arctic Armor
- Iron Reflexes: Jade + Granite double boost, Grace + Determination double boost
- EC + Immortal Call

You should run the math and see your true mitigation % for your armor after using LC + Taste of Hate.
Last edited by Ceryneian on Jan 28, 2015, 9:06:41 AM
Armor is almost an afterthought in PoE. ES is far superior in all matters. Not against chaos, but neither does armor.

But for us melee players we want to tank armor and wade in and deal the damage in exchange for being slower, but better protected.

PoE doesn't work this way and never will.
It still reeks of Blizzard (Ghostcrawler) days of 'active mitigation.' It's a terrible concept that ruins more builds than it helps. There should be more/better passive mitigation options.
"
3 items, 0 Passives = >80k armour

Why would I want to be "a proper armour build" when I can achieve true 59.5% physical mitigation with these three items?

Should I include endurance charges? We are talking about Armour. Anyone can get +1 from Merciless Oak (without sacrificing much at all), and another +1 from a belt corruption (much harder, but possible).

Edit: Of course Taste of Hate actually has great synergy with Armour builds, but its still awesome free mitigation for everyone else.



No one who knows what they are doing is going to invest fully into armour without investing in endurance charges, so yes you should include them. The devs are including them when they test stuff and balance the game.


"
Ceryneian wrote:
use what the game gives you. Trying to play "pure armor" is like trying to play pure evasion with no Acro.



Exactly, Ceryneian is spot on, you have to look at the game and learn it, not bring preconceptions to the table. In D3 you stack armour + all res + vit to combat virtually everything. Thats because its a game designed to be easy for a 12 year old to understand and play, literally. Here there are layers, armour, endurance, soul, ic, granite flasks, taste of hate, coil, a number of ways to mitigate phys and you are expected to layer multiple different coats of mitigation and of avoidance. You dont go evasion, you go evasion + ondars + acro + phase acro, maybe even a jade too, and maybe a shield with some block, thats you avoidance sorted. Now you use coil on top of all those and the saphire flask + endurance charges + immortal call and you are cursing enfeeble maybe even blinding enemies somehow, and you are stacking life, and leeching, and you have some life on hit, and on kill, and life regen, and elemental resist, and you use resist flasks, and dispel ele effects flask, and dispel curse flask.... Defense is never one thing, its many many things none of which has the power to do nearly enough on their own to see you through hard content.


If armour or evasion or energy shield or dodge or block or endurance was good enough on its own to tank maps the game would be broken, because people who dont come to the game expecting to stack just armour and resist but instead actually look at the game mechanics and learn how to play the mechanics on offer will stack 4 or 5 of those things that all work well enough on their own on top of each other and be brokenly tanky, thats already happening to some extent without them being carry strong mechanics on their own.


Its not a game with a handful of stereotype classes that each do something pure and different in an isolated vacuum, I dont see many good builds sticking to their 1/6 of the tree, everything is a hybrid to some extent. I wouldnt play full armour unless I was aegis + rumis, I wouldnt play pure evasion unless I was coil + taste, thats my personal preferences. Evasion is strong where armour falls down, armour is strong where evasion falls down, I dont understand why so many melee characters look at that situation and think "oh, best to get one or the other instead of getting both".



I can understand why so many of those builds fail and we get posts like this though. Please dont take what I say personally, its not about that, its about our group knowledge as a community, thats what I care about and its why I make these posts despite the fact the last thing I want to do is disagree with anyone or make a post of this size. As a community we have got so many things wrong over time, overlooked so much that was later to be recongnised as crazy good. Instead of having a couple of mechanics like armour and resist we have a ton and that makes it more interesting, more customisable, theres like 20+ defensive options and its about what you have the opportunity to use, what you need, what you sacrifice to get this or that. In D3 you have armour, vit and res making up the vast majority of every characters defense. Oh look my bis quadfecta rare demon hunter amulet that is what I would use for every dh build, and monk build, and its exactly the same as a bis barb amulet if you swap the dex for strength... its just so bad, embrace complexity, options and layering. Armour may be shit on its own, but so is ev and es. You know whats even more shit than those defensive options? Every other defensive option, you always have to layer.

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