Until melee is fixed, a lot of people will not comeback.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

It's not asinine at all, you're completely missing the point. My comment is about as valid as you posting a link to a softcore video when we are discussing class balance.

Or as relavant as you discussing melee as a whole by pointing to a different class then you play ^_^. When discussing things like viable, clearpseed, ect those apply to both builds in SC\HC, unless you have forgotten and just assume everyone plays in bloodlines.

"

As for the raiz build he used cyclone with HoI to clear packs in the aforementioned manner. I would hesitate to call this a melee build despite the fact that he is using cyclone, we're really stretching the definition of melee here. HoI is doing most of the clearing.

So what exactly qualifies as melee to you, because even melee skills have some aoe and with enough nodes pretty high range.

"

If the overwhelming majority of your damage is coming from something that isn't a melee skill, I'd say you aren't melee. The fact that people are making melee builds using HoI in the first place is mostly a testament to how bad melee is, not to how good it is. You don't see people posting up videos of arc + added cold damage + HoI wiping packs and saying "see! casters are viable because of this herald of ice build", because it isn't necessary to do so.

Your back to comparing apples to oranges again, if manual casters aren't "viable" why do we see so many of them?

"

Also, you're linking a video to a character that has since DIED.

Yes characters die in this game....Perhaps he was doing content not suitable for that build, idk. But its ok your definition of melee isn't apparently the same as any skill that uses melee, but some double dagger build on the other side of the tree.

Simple questions with simple answers:
1. raizQT was using a shadow I don't even comprehend what you're saying here.

2. If the majority of your damage is coming from something other than the "melee" modifier of a gem with the "melee" tag on it, you aren't melee. This is not complicated and HoI does not satisfy this requirement even by POE's standards, you're just using a melee skill to activate the damage of a ranged cast. Further I'd suggest that if you aren't able to be hit by the mob you are attacking, you still aren't melee even if you satisfy the aforementioned requirement; at that point, you're pseudo-melee (reave, 20+ attack range, etc).
Even flicker strike qualifies as melee according to the letter of the rule and I'd argue since you're vanishing and reappearing all the time you're still "pseudo melee" as flicker, or leap slam, etc.

3. Never said casters weren't viable at all, again you completely missed the point of that comment. I have a self-caster templar and I can faceroll the entire map effortlessly, it's absurd.

4. Regular maps not suitable for the build, rofl. Go watch the video of how he died.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

granted my melee character is better at taking down bosses due to higher damage on 2 handed weapons and whatnot but in no way does it compare. to get the same feeling of efficiency of clearing packs i think i would need a 5 link to compare to that ice shot / fork/ LmP.

Characters WAY too low level to give an honest opinion. First of all we don't know how many more dps nodes you have on the ranged character vs the melee character, we don't know if you lucked into an awesome leveling bow and are still using a subpar melee weapon, too many factors AT THAT LOW OF LEVEL in order to determine why you are experiencing what you are.

But please level a few more characters like spell casters or summoners to that level and compare. I'd be interested to hear what you come up with.

Technically being right is not the same as being logically right.

He doesn't have high level characters, but if you're suggesting that summoners or casters aren't as good as melee characters in mapping/endgame......................................................... lol.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Technically being right is not the same as being logically right.

He doesn't have high level characters, but if you're suggesting that summoners or casters aren't as good as melee characters in mapping/endgame......................................................... lol.

I was suggesting that he gets an opion on 2 other popular playstyles at the same comparable level to see that summoner and certain spellcasters can be worst to level with then melee.

Didn't say ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNYTHING about endgame did I?

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

granted my melee character is better at taking down bosses due to higher damage on 2 handed weapons and whatnot but in no way does it compare. to get the same feeling of efficiency of clearing packs i think i would need a 5 link to compare to that ice shot / fork/ LmP.

Characters WAY too low level to give an honest opinion. First of all we don't know how many more dps nodes you have on the ranged character vs the melee character, we don't know if you lucked into an awesome leveling bow and are still using a subpar melee weapon, too many factors AT THAT LOW OF LEVEL in order to determine why you are experiencing what you are.

But please level a few more characters like spell casters or summoners to that level and compare. I'd be interested to hear what you come up with.

I have melee, caster and ranged characters all over 80. Ranged is king as far as cost to efficiency. My bow ranger and arc witch clear whole screens in seconds with little effort, and sub standard gear. My arc witch tooltip dps is less than 7k, whereas my melee is 15k, and the clear times are not even close.

It's simply cheaper and more efficient to run ranged.

Melee, on the other hand is more fun.

"

Xtorma wrote:

I have melee, caster and ranged characters all over 80. Ranged is king as far as cost to efficiency. My bow ranger and arc witch clear whole screens in seconds with little effort, and sub standard gear. My arc witch tooltip dps is less than 7k, whereas my melee is 15k, and the clear times are not even close.

It's simply cheaper and more efficient to run ranged.

Melee, on the other hand is more fun.

I was trying to get the player to test some other builds and see how they are at low level, but I guess he doesn't check the forums anymore.

traditional summoners are a pain in the ass to level. they are entirely dependent on twink gear , animation potions, support auras and the minion notable passives.

most of those things you wont have when leveling especially at the start of the league.

srs summoners are the exact opposite to level, just get a +1 item every level threshold and spam spam spam. aoe bosses are a bitch to deal with however.


spell casters are slower to level in the beginning by simple fact they are more dependent on gem level than on weapons since gem level is base damage.

but this issue is entirely gone by level 40 and level 50 spell casters shit all over level 50 melee characters from that point on

bow users have a slow start only because split arrow and rain of arrows aren't particularly good at low level and ice arrow is expensive and doesn't quite have the aoe low level.

this changes at level 19 and entirely goes away at level 24 with lmp and nado shot /lmp ice arrow.


2 hand melee users win out in the single target dps which carries them through bosses easily and also puts them through as the clear speed winners into the end of normal depending on gear.

however once bow users and spell casters can reliably one shot / 2 shot mobs which tends to happen around the mid to end of normal 2 hand melee loses out in clear speed.

2 hand melee also has alot lot lot more gem requirements and item requirements/ passive requirements making it a poor first character choice. this is also why the duelist is god awful character as his gem rewards do not mesh with melee gem requirements at all.

^^ I would call that an accurate description

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

^^ I would call that an accurate description

But I wanted that player to do the work on his own before such conclusions could be made.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

granted my melee character is better at taking down bosses due to higher damage on 2 handed weapons and whatnot but in no way does it compare. to get the same feeling of efficiency of clearing packs i think i would need a 5 link to compare to that ice shot / fork/ LmP.

Characters WAY too low level to give an honest opinion. First of all we don't know how many more dps nodes you have on the ranged character vs the melee character, we don't know if you lucked into an awesome leveling bow and are still using a subpar melee weapon, too many factors AT THAT LOW OF LEVEL in order to determine why you are experiencing what you are.

But please level a few more characters like spell casters or summoners to that level and compare. I'd be interested to hear what you come up with.

stave lvl 49 atm 72% increased damage with staves 50% increased crit 51% increased melee from str
8% increased melee damage 6% increased atk speed from passive's 26% increased elemental damage (90% of its damage comes from lightning/cold)


atm 45% increased projectile damage 185% increased crit from and 30% increased atk speed passive's for the archer


id say the weapons if they hit similar lvl will be the same i always use the rustic sash +whetstone + weapon recipe when i lvl my characters.

my point is my ranger is walking around herpa derp in cruel with like 10% fire resist taking down fire resists mobs np around 600-700 hp.

i got 72 fire resist on my templar also cruel and i get melted with fire mobs. 1.9k hp atm

"

agbudar wrote:

stave lvl 49 atm 72% increased damage with staves 50% increased crit 51% increased melee from str
8% increased melee damage 6% increased atk speed from passive's 26% increased elemental damage (90% of its damage comes from lightning/cold)

Spoiler

atm 45% increased projectile damage 185% increased crit from and 30% increased atk speed passive's for the archer

Spoiler

id say the weapons if they hit similar lvl will be the same i always use the rustic sash +whetstone + weapon recipe when i lvl my characters.

my point is my ranger is walking around herpa derp in cruel with like 10% fire resist taking down fire resists mobs np around 600-700 hp.

i got 72 fire resist on my templar also cruel and i get melted with fire mobs. 1.9k hp atm

Which fire mobs are you having a problem with?

In terms of damage your more then likely going to get more damage from added fire then you will with weapon ele, unless of course your playing in a party with someone providing auras. You also aren't using a rustic stash on that character, but you are on your bow character.

You are also using ele things (heralds for staff) but using hatred for bow. Hatred scales off of your weapon, where the heralds scale off of levels.

Your comparing the differences of these characters without them being setup similarly.