Witch - [1.2.4] Tendril Lock: The lightning and ice witch (updated) - Forum

" eviL_Bison wrote: Hi, nice build. At the moment I'm trying it for my witch. It works really well, even with "only" 4B Linked Armor. Spoiler Even with this "not so good" armor, i reach about 13k of DPS. (Respec to your build is in progress) My CoD waits for RNG to be 5 or 6L. I for my self want to know, what are your current stats? Even when its not finished yet. Do you plan to add a leveling progress guide for this build? (20, 50, 70, 100 points) And at least, thank you for sharing your build! :-) ps: Sorry for my english Hi, Im not planning to do leveling guide for the build. Lightning tendrils works fine from level 1 to end game. Passive tree, just balance life and dps as needed, there is no milestone to hit for the build to work. Leveling gear is just your normal spell leveling gear, nothing special =) This is what I use all the way till Lv66 Spoiler	Posted by xiwen on Oct 30, 2014, 1:19:56 PM Quote this Post
" xiwen wrote: " seba28 wrote: Hi, have a question, i try your build. Is very funny to play. Now i have the Three Dragon Helm, but when i use it - The herald of thunder dont work also the Warlords gem. I test it two times, when i use a other help the Thunder also the Curse Gem workds. Why? regards Hi, I cant really understand your English. But I'm guessing you have trouble keeping herald of thunder constantly activated? You need to wear Pyre ring and run Herald of Ice. Pyre ring will convert HOI cold damage to fire, which will shock enemy (because of three dragon helmet), thus keeping herald of thunder running constantly. Herald of Thunder will then curse all the enemies with Warlord's Mark, which will give you mana and life when you hit them. Hi, my english isnt the best but i wrote this very simple. So ok, now i understand, but i read your Guide and there is no Info about The ring is a duty. I dont have this Ring, also i try at Skill Points Cold damage and Freeze but it makes no effect and no more damage. (maybe cause the ring is missing) Is there a other options?	Posted by seba28 on Oct 30, 2014, 4:58:38 PM Quote this Post
" xiwen wrote: Lightning pen could be better choice than echo. Definitely not Conc effect, Aoe is really important in freeze prolif build. Before I use COD, I can freeze the whole freeze with Carcass jack. Clear speed is really bad if I use Conc eff with 30% reduced Aoe. Regarding echo's lock in place, it was brought up before. I dont really mind being rooted for a third of a second for the huge dps boost. My dps is 19k, 12k without echo. It is a freeze build anyway, I dont get hit often, even when rooted. Good point on Crit. Currently I got a flat 15% chance to freeze or shock. One thing Im not sure is whether the chance is per cast or per hit (LT do 8 hit per cast with echo). I know Crit is per cast, which mean if I dont crit the first hit, the remaining 7 hit will not crit as well. I think lightning tendrils scale really well with cast speed because of the 25% Damage effectiveness. I dont know what you mean by faster casting gains extremely reduced efficiency. Can you explain? Maybe Im not aware of the mechanic. Thanks! Did you test out conc effect yet? I would certainly give it at least a swing (I mean, I understand the point, but you should try it at the bare minimum) For crit, yes, its per cast, and for freeze/shock its per hit, but it still holds that you need to break the treshold and when you hit both the whole screen and break the 300ms treshold, your clearspeed is in general high enough without going for chance to freeze etc etc to clear before they kill you (with lightning tendrils that is). However, using assasin's mark gives you a flat 9% chance to crit which is rolled on the HIT end just like freeze and shock, basically giving you the same but more, especially when using curse on hit with quality and all that so that that 9% gets increased even further. Its also a reason not to use spell echo again, but thats less important because its a by-product. For the cast speed, what I mean is that each 4% stacks onto the already existing pool of increased cast speed. the first 4% increased your cast speed from 100 % to 104%, giving you what it says. However, when you already have 100% increased cast speed, you have a base of 200% which gets increased to 204% meaning that it will have an effective cast speed increase of 204/200=102% thus 2%. hence, when you have more than 50% cast speed (which imo is around where the sweet spot is) all 4% nodes will be effectively only 3% or lower. For the 25% effectiveness, cast speed doesnt do anything around this, unless you BUILD your spell around added damage, which works for example: Spoiler 1. Incinerate because it increases its stacks, and has very efficient effectiveness 2. Storm call (suprisingly) has 100% effectiveness on a 0.5 cast time base which is a lot better than tendrils 3. freeze pulse because it has 6% crit chance and high effectiveness (100%) which makes it one of the better added dmg crit spells (paired with ice spear), plus it can shotgun just like incinerate giving a 250% top end effectiveness with GMP Bad spells to use added damage with are: 1. Flameblast (really high base damage, to which any added damage just doesnt compare) and only 50% effectiveness, even tho the spell itself has a pretty fast cast. 2. Discharge (one of the worst. Slow cast speed, AND you need a charge to discharge) 3. Lightning tendrils (even tho it casts really fast) because combined with the 25% effectiveness, added dmg doesnt compare to the base damage it does. Just dont stack cast speed higher than 75%~ (including faster casting) unless you get more damage significantly faster with cast speed, or it will lock you in place for way too long if you dont get it (think about incinerate which stacks up and thus gets a lot more benefit from faster casting, storm call which can abuse the short amount of time it hits in because you dont need to shock for longer than a second that way (which is useful for bosses and a big reason storm call is excellent single target) and flameblast which requires an ultimate swift gameplay) Ign: Leary_AscendedNecro Twitchtv: leary93 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfzgUpVcv6wzrs5TwKZaGJQ Last edited by leary93 on Oct 30, 2014, 6:06:25 PM	Posted by leary93 on Oct 30, 2014, 6:06:06 PM Quote this Post
" seba28 wrote: " xiwen wrote: " seba28 wrote: Hi, have a question, i try your build. Is very funny to play. Now i have the Three Dragon Helm, but when i use it - The herald of thunder dont work also the Warlords gem. I test it two times, when i use a other help the Thunder also the Curse Gem workds. Why? regards Hi, I cant really understand your English. But I'm guessing you have trouble keeping herald of thunder constantly activated? You need to wear Pyre ring and run Herald of Ice. Pyre ring will convert HOI cold damage to fire, which will shock enemy (because of three dragon helmet), thus keeping herald of thunder running constantly. Herald of Thunder will then curse all the enemies with Warlord's Mark, which will give you mana and life when you hit them. Hi, my english isnt the best but i wrote this very simple. So ok, now i understand, but i read your Guide and there is no Info about The ring is a duty. I dont have this Ring, also i try at Skill Points Cold damage and Freeze but it makes no effect and no more damage. (maybe cause the ring is missing) Is there a other options? You can dont use the three dragon helmet. Use added cold with your lightning tendrils. With herald of ice and thunder, it should still shock and freeze white enemies. But you will have trouble with enemies that have cold resist and high life.	Posted by xiwen on Oct 30, 2014, 7:23:30 PM Quote this Post
" leary93 wrote: " xiwen wrote: Lightning pen could be better choice than echo. Definitely not Conc effect, Aoe is really important in freeze prolif build. Before I use COD, I can freeze the whole freeze with Carcass jack. Clear speed is really bad if I use Conc eff with 30% reduced Aoe. Regarding echo's lock in place, it was brought up before. I dont really mind being rooted for a third of a second for the huge dps boost. My dps is 19k, 12k without echo. It is a freeze build anyway, I dont get hit often, even when rooted. Good point on Crit. Currently I got a flat 15% chance to freeze or shock. One thing Im not sure is whether the chance is per cast or per hit (LT do 8 hit per cast with echo). I know Crit is per cast, which mean if I dont crit the first hit, the remaining 7 hit will not crit as well. I think lightning tendrils scale really well with cast speed because of the 25% Damage effectiveness. I dont know what you mean by faster casting gains extremely reduced efficiency. Can you explain? Maybe Im not aware of the mechanic. Thanks! Did you test out conc effect yet? I would certainly give it at least a swing (I mean, I understand the point, but you should try it at the bare minimum) For crit, yes, its per cast, and for freeze/shock its per hit, but it still holds that you need to break the treshold and when you hit both the whole screen and break the 300ms treshold, your clearspeed is in general high enough without going for chance to freeze etc etc to clear before they kill you (with lightning tendrils that is). However, using assasin's mark gives you a flat 9% chance to crit which is rolled on the HIT end just like freeze and shock, basically giving you the same but more, especially when using curse on hit with quality and all that so that that 9% gets increased even further. Its also a reason not to use spell echo again, but thats less important because its a by-product. For the cast speed, what I mean is that each 4% stacks onto the already existing pool of increased cast speed. the first 4% increased your cast speed from 100 % to 104%, giving you what it says. However, when you already have 100% increased cast speed, you have a base of 200% which gets increased to 204% meaning that it will have an effective cast speed increase of 204/200=102% thus 2%. hence, when you have more than 50% cast speed (which imo is around where the sweet spot is) all 4% nodes will be effectively only 3% or lower. For the 25% effectiveness, cast speed doesnt do anything around this, unless you BUILD your spell around added damage, which works for example: Spoiler 1. Incinerate because it increases its stacks, and has very efficient effectiveness 2. Storm call (suprisingly) has 100% effectiveness on a 0.5 cast time base which is a lot better than tendrils 3. freeze pulse because it has 6% crit chance and high effectiveness (100%) which makes it one of the better added dmg crit spells (paired with ice spear), plus it can shotgun just like incinerate giving a 250% top end effectiveness with GMP Bad spells to use added damage with are: 1. Flameblast (really high base damage, to which any added damage just doesnt compare) and only 50% effectiveness, even tho the spell itself has a pretty fast cast. 2. Discharge (one of the worst. Slow cast speed, AND you need a charge to discharge) 3. Lightning tendrils (even tho it casts really fast) because combined with the 25% effectiveness, added dmg doesnt compare to the base damage it does. Just dont stack cast speed higher than 75%~ (including faster casting) unless you get more damage significantly faster with cast speed, or it will lock you in place for way too long if you dont get it (think about incinerate which stacks up and thus gets a lot more benefit from faster casting, storm call which can abuse the short amount of time it hits in because you dont need to shock for longer than a second that way (which is useful for bosses and a big reason storm call is excellent single target) and flameblast which requires an ultimate swift gameplay) Yes I did test conc effect. The smaller aoe from prolif and tendrils is obvious. Altho enemies die faster, you gonna walk closer and cast more thing in different direction. Maybe Ill try to find a corrupted additional curse amulet with mana reg or use Windscream to test going crit. I cant give up warlord mark for its life leech. I'll do some testing over the weekend to see if crit is more effective than chance to freeze/shock passive. But atm, it alrdy does 100% freeze/shock to all enemies when I map, except map boss. Are you saying there is a diminishing returns of cast speed??? Where is your source? from poe wiki: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Cast_speed 200% increased cast speed 1 / 0.8 = 1.25 casts per second (base) 1.25 * ( 1 + 1 ) = 2.5 casts per second (modified) 1 / 2.5 = Modified cast time of 0.4 seconds 250% increased cast speed 1 / 0.8 = 1.25 casts per second (base) 1.25 * ( 1 + 0.5 ) = 3.125 casts per second (modified) 1 / 1.88 = Modified cast time of 0.32 seconds 200% of 0.4s = 0.8s 250% of 0.32s= 0.8s I dont see the Diminishing returns in cast speed? Am i missing somethings?	Posted by xiwen on Oct 30, 2014, 7:53:00 PM Quote this Post
" xiwen wrote: Are you saying there is a diminishing returns of cast speed??? Where is your source? from poe wiki: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Cast_speed 200% increased cast speed 1 / 0.8 = 1.25 casts per second (base) 1.25 * ( 1 + 1 ) = 2.5 casts per second (modified) 1 / 2.5 = Modified cast time of 0.4 seconds 250% increased cast speed 1 / 0.8 = 1.25 casts per second (base) 1.25 * ( 1 + 0.5 ) = 3.125 casts per second (modified) 1 / 1.88 = Modified cast time of 0.32 seconds 200% of 0.4s = 0.8s 250% of 0.32s= 0.8s I dont see the Diminishing returns in cast speed? Am i missing somethings? Math is my source. What im saying, is the first node of 4% gives you an pure increase of 4% dps (104%/100% is in that case the multiplicative i.e. effective/true whatever increase, being 1.04) However, when you already have picked up 25 of these nodes and want to pick up a 26th its a bad idea, since this only gives the increase from 200% cast speed to 204% cast speed, thus an effective/true increase of 204%/200% = 1.02. I cant state it any more obvious than that. And that right there, is what is called diminishing returns, not some hidden game mechanic that says that when you have x% cast speed your next cast speed node will only work half, it will just mathematically work for half of what it says to do. Its the reason people actually pick up cast speed at all, because all the spell damage nodes are 10%+ in what they give (given you pick up the ones that are good obv) and thus always a better dps increase in a vacuum, but, because you most of the times stack a good chunk of that already, it gets less and less efficient (due to mathematical diminishing returns) to pick up more spell damage. For the matter of the conc, Ill accept your opinion, I havent tested with inc AoE and conc either of em yet, but I dont mind the smaller AoE that much yet (given, im leveling, im crit, and not prolif freeze). It might actually not be a good idea to use conc in the case of mapping. Ign: Leary_AscendedNecro Twitchtv: leary93 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfzgUpVcv6wzrs5TwKZaGJQ	Posted by leary93 on Oct 30, 2014, 8:03:14 PM Quote this Post
" leary93 wrote: " xiwen wrote: Are you saying there is a diminishing returns of cast speed??? Where is your source? from poe wiki: http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Cast_speed 200% increased cast speed 1 / 0.8 = 1.25 casts per second (base) 1.25 * ( 1 + 1 ) = 2.5 casts per second (modified) 1 / 2.5 = Modified cast time of 0.4 seconds 250% increased cast speed 1 / 0.8 = 1.25 casts per second (base) 1.25 * ( 1 + 0.5 ) = 3.125 casts per second (modified) 1 / 1.88 = Modified cast time of 0.32 seconds 200% of 0.4s = 0.8s 250% of 0.32s= 0.8s I dont see the Diminishing returns in cast speed? Am i missing somethings? Math is my source. What im saying, is the first node of 4% gives you an pure increase of 4% dps (104%/100% is in that case the multiplicative i.e. effective/true whatever increase, being 1.04) However, when you already have picked up 25 of these nodes and want to pick up a 26th its a bad idea, since this only gives the increase from 200% cast speed to 204% cast speed, thus an effective/true increase of 204%/200% = 1.02. I cant state it any more obvious than that. And that right there, is what is called diminishing returns, not some hidden game mechanic that says that when you have x% cast speed your next cast speed node will only work half, it will just mathematically work for half of what it says to do. Its the reason people actually pick up cast speed at all, because all the spell damage nodes are 10%+ in what they give (given you pick up the ones that are good obv) and thus always a better dps increase in a vacuum, but, because you most of the times stack a good chunk of that already, it gets less and less efficient (due to mathematical diminishing returns) to pick up more spell damage. For the matter of the conc, Ill accept your opinion, I havent tested with inc AoE and conc either of em yet, but I dont mind the smaller AoE that much yet (given, im leveling, im crit, and not prolif freeze). It might actually not be a good idea to use conc in the case of mapping. I see ur point. Same goes for spell/ele dmg. So the optimum build is to balance dmg with cast speed. My end game passive tree give: 86% cast speed, 114% ele , 44% spell, 20% area, 97% lightning dmg. Gear give: 131% spell dmg Gem give: 48% cast speed (echo 66% cast speed, 10% reduce dmg, but multiple final dps per cast 2time) If I dont take echo into consideration, it is total 134% cast speed and 406% dmg multiple modification. I'll still take cast speed node on passive tree anytime compare to dmg nodes. I guess lightning pen could be a better gem than faster casting. I'll test it too when i got the time, to see how it actually affect the clear speed in real game play.	Posted by xiwen on Oct 30, 2014, 8:45:02 PM Quote this Post
respec into crit, 5 power charge, total about 50% chance to crit. It is bad, it doesnt do perma freeze, dps slightly increase. I like chance to freeze/shock a lot more than crit.	Posted by xiwen on Oct 31, 2014, 1:29:29 AM Quote this Post
Do you think this build will work in beyond?	Posted by schitschi on Oct 31, 2014, 5:58:05 PM Quote this Post
" schitschi wrote: Do you think this build will work in beyond? yes. you probably have to pick up more life node before dmg. And play carefully, there are chance to die to double ele ref with the ice herald explosion and LT.	Posted by xiwen on Oct 31, 2014, 7:09:41 PM Quote this Post