REFLECT IS STUPID!

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Natharias wrote:

So reflect is bad just because it checks to make sure you regain hit points faster than you would take them from your own damage?

Do you even know the full idea of reflect, or should I lay out all of its aspects for you?

1. Reflect is first and foremost a method to limit DPS of builds. No matter how much you leech, you'll one-shot yourself if you deal a single, huge hit.

2. It forces players to make builds that either avoid reflect by using indirect sources of damage, or by forcing them to leech back enough life/ES in order to survive it. It makes it impossible for any build to clear all monsters.

3. Because it forces players to leech more than they would reflect to themselves, it forces them to make more survivable builds instead of glass cannons. So even MF builds are supposed to be survivable.

4. Reflect counters large hits, not numerous hits. But numerous hits that deal enough damage can be a problem. That's why I favor Firestorm for CoC instead of Fireball. Much less needed to mitigate reflect. That's why we have things like Corrupted Blood to counter numerous hits, and not big hits.

Now do you understand that reflect is not bad in any way? What's bad is how people try to defame it and have it removed from the game.

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Shade_RU_N53 wrote:

Reflect is bad because it dictates how exactly my character should be built.

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Natharias wrote:

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TikoXi wrote:

As someone who runs AA Incinerate, I have around 60% fire res in merciless, and I instagib myself on a large pack of monsters with a rare who has reflect elemental damage. My AA isn't very high level due to mana drain concerns, but it's certainly not enough.

LOL!

Did you even think to consider why you're dying? You just said it yourself.

I'm not saying an under-leveled AA will stop reflect; it won't. But a max level AA, and possibly Inner Force, will definitely stop all reflect from incinerate.

AA mitigates 189 fire damage at level 20, without putting it in a +item or using Empower. With IF, it jumps up to 228.

Incinerate does a base of 68-102. Assuming a build is able to get 100% increased damage, that jumps up to 204. After stage 4, it jumps up to about 816. But you must then also assume the build has at least 75% fire resistance, since it has such increased damage, and that it may have things like Purity of Fire, Rise of the Phoenix, or Saffel's Frame.

So the fact that you run an under-leveled AA, less than acceptable fire resistance, and likely not using any of the methods to deal with higher level reflect shows that you haven't dealt with it yet.

My build is doing 27k DPS with Fire Penetration, and I don't hurt myself whatsoever.

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TikoXi wrote:

That said, I do feel that reflect is a little cheap. I've never had a problem with physical reflect though...only elemental. Not sure why that is, cause even my glass cannon crit-leecher handles phys reflect admirably with a whopping 12% phys reduction :/

That's because it's easier to mitigate attacks than spells.

Block and dodge are much easier to get compared to spell block and spell dodge.

Then you also have evasion, which only applies to spells.

Assuming you have a max block, max spell block, and Acrobatics build, only 15% of attacks deal damage and only 17.5% of spells deal damage.

Then take into account indirect methods to counter attacks:

1. Shockwave Totem/Knockback support gem. Enemies almost never hit because, well, they can't get close enough.

2. Frost Wall. Almost nothing ever deals damage because there is a barrier between you. This is the least used but most overpowered defense in the game. I haven't tried it with incinerate, but I would assume the projectiles can't pass through. Things like spectral throw CoC can abuse this though.

3. Endurance charges. 3 charges give 12% flat physical reduction, and that can be huge. If you build around the 10 maximum charges, it is possible to get 40% flat physical reduction. That's better than Lightning Coil, because it doesn't require lightning resistance to mitigate it. It does require a corrupt belt, two rings, and a passive skill tree, but it applies to all attacks and provides 40% to elemental resistances.

4. Immortal Call. Total immunity to all physical damage from all sources. This trumps any elemental mitigation.

So physical has much more to mitigate reflect. Elemental doesn't. But elemental reflect does have resistances that mitigate a huge amount of the damage, AA, and resistance flasks. It's easy to get 100% in a resistance, especially if you use it.

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Natharias wrote:

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Shade_RU_N53 wrote:

D2 have had it's reflectors removed. So should PoE, no H in IMhO.

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Reflect has always been a play style/dps/gear check.

Not enough res to handle reflect, too bad. Gotta change it.

Rushing too much and trying to just flat out ignore monster mods? Too bad, not gonna work. Move slower when you notice a rare is around use a lower damage skill to take it down if it has reflect.

Reflect was reduced already so its really at a good place right now. Its on you now if you die to it. If you use arc, no wonder you 1 shot yourself. Is that the only skill you use? I use like 5 or 6 skills on my ele builds and never had problems with reflect. Easy as pie if you see the aura and use fireball, or something else to take em down. I used flameblast and other heavy damage dealers too and obviously instead of asking for reflect nerfs or calling it stupid i find a way to deal with it.

The whole mechanics of this is erroneous. Instead of running through the game and slaughtering monsters you attack yourself and deal with your own damage. Obviously enough, there will always be cases when you are bound to lose. Why? Because PoE allows extreme flexibility of playing style and building characters. The whole reflect mechanics, as it exists today, is one of very few counterfits to this great quality of this game -- either you build your char one of the pre-determined ways, or you die.

People here speak of 75% res. But if I tank with minions and play carefully enough while killing anything before it gets close, in range or hits me, I don't need even HP, let alone some "resistances"! The only mechanics that goes against this is reflect. Think of it -- in the whole game there's just one thing that will kill with guaranty any glass-cannon character.

You talk about using another skill. What, to go around this mechaincs specifically? This is definitely the worst possible solution since it forces the players from diversity to singularity. It still can be used, and it's good your build has this ability -- but the thread is not about you building a good build, it's about game mechanics that is bad at the core of it.

So reflect is bad just because it checks to make sure you regain hit points faster than you would take them from your own damage?

Do you even know the full idea of reflect, or should I lay out all of its aspects for you?

1. Reflect is first and foremost a method to limit DPS of builds. No matter how much you leech, you'll one-shot yourself if you deal a single, huge hit.

2. It forces players to make builds that either avoid reflect by using indirect sources of damage, or by forcing them to leech back enough life/ES in order to survive it. It makes it impossible for any build to clear all monsters.

3. Because it forces players to leech more than they would reflect to themselves, it forces them to make more survivable builds instead of glass cannons. So even MF builds are supposed to be survivable.

4. Reflect counters large hits, not numerous hits. But numerous hits that deal enough damage can be a problem. That's why I favor Firestorm for CoC instead of Fireball. Much less needed to mitigate reflect. That's why we have things like Corrupted Blood to counter numerous hits, and not big hits.

Now do you understand that reflect is not bad in any way? What's bad is how people try to defame it and have it removed from the game.