Daggers too OP

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Cataca wrote:

Seriously, who cares if its 30k or 3000 million dps, at that point you will be killing so fast that beeing melee is inefficient anyhow. Both will play a lot like this:
Oneshot pack, move on to next, oneshot pack.... the difference will be that you spend 3 seconds or half a second on the map boss.

Honestly, buff everything else to the level of daggers, dont nerf them. The DPS difference between a perfectly rolled sword and a perfectly rolled dagger is just too marginal.
If you just nerf daggers, the next thing people would use are claws and maces (highest crit).

That honestly doesnt solve anything.

yea this is nonesense along with other peoples idea that 30k is just as efficient as 100k.

you obviously have not had 30k on a 2h build, or more, if you believe its the same thing between 30k and 100k.

let me put it like this, 30k for ubers is fuck all,nothing, you wont even be able to clear the white minions in time in the healing phase.

in maps its the same thing, the difference between 30k and 80k (which i have now) is HUGE, you acutally 1 shot stuff with 80k, rare mobs take as much time to kill as white mobs, unlike with 30k.

Unfortunately even with 80k dps the clear speed is still meh compared to other builds who reach like 100k on big AoE skills, and the survivability as a 2h even with leg kaoms is shite, theyre pretty much the worst builds at the moment, no damage, no defense, slow clear speed, only really good skill is cyclone.

They might nerf daggers, but i dont think it will be too hard, what they really need to do is to buff other builds like you said, to the same effectiveness as daggers.

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GodKas wrote:

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rampagingrabbit wrote:

Crit sure is strong. Can some person who tossed a thousand dollars to GGG design a nasty 2 handed axe with 10% crit please?????

Even if axe got 10% base crit
dagger still wins

there is no single axe node about major crit boosts
daggers have freaking insane crit nodes

gg

Actually, daggers now should go into strength area to get freaking insane crit nodes (Disemboweling, Deadly Precition and Swift Precition), wasting a lot of points to get there from int/dex area (where dagger nodes are located).

And i personally think that wands >>> daggers ATM.

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GodKas wrote:

Right who cares 2H dps 30k+
while crit daggers 300k to 1000k+

I achieve 25k DpS with a 300DpS sword in a max block/spellblock BoR Resolute Technique build with mediocre gear.
If I had a mirrored sword and some other better stuff, this would already be about 50k DpS. In a super-defensive build.
If I took a bit of crit as well and reduced my shield block defensive stuff and wear an Abyssus, I could probably double that number again. To about 100k DpS (for a non-dagger/claw/sceptre 1h+shield build).

Currently I'm playing a dualwield crit sword marauder. I have two swords with about 300DpS, a 5L non 20q non maxlevel main attack and am not even running Hatred or using Abyssus, 45k DpS
Again, give me a 6L, Hatred, a couple more levels, better gear, Abyssus and two mirrored swords, you're looking at a double-double-double DpS party, bringing it up to at least 200k DpS, I guess.
(the only difference to a dagger build: he has 95% crit, I have 60%, so he'll do about 50% more damage)

With a twohanded build (non staff), you'll cap out at around 150k DpS, I guess, if you really want and have mirror tier gear.
Here's a thread with a 112k DpS Double Strike (mirrored axe and other expensive stuff).
I don't even like his skilltree too much, but it's fine enough.
Let him remove his bm gem for a 20/20 "melee damage on full life" gem and give him 21/20 or 20/23 gems, and he'll probably sit at about 160k "screenshot DpS".
With a staff, it's probably a bit higher, though I'm not a huge fan of the staff nodes and their location in the tree.

Dagger builds cap out at about 300k DpS.
The pictures with 1Mio DpS are purely for Epeen comparison, buffed up with Headhunter belt and Aura supports. This is not how they are actually playing.

---

Yes, Daggers are op.
This game has no crit multi limit, no attack speed limit and also your crit chance is only capped at 95% (which is ridiculous).
Daggers benefit more from the game mechanic of multiplying "more damage" numbers repeatedly.
Twohanders do not.
So yes, there is an imbalance.

But stop this bullshit with "2h builds only do 30k DpS, daggers do 1 million".

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VictorDoom wrote:

ramble ramble

Way to miss the point.

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Cataca wrote:

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VictorDoom wrote:

ramble ramble

Way to miss the point.

He doesn't need one hes cleared uber aztiri with a 2 hander hes fucking baller.

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VictorDoom wrote:

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Cataca wrote:

Seriously, who cares if its 30k or 3000 million dps, at that point you will be killing so fast that beeing melee is inefficient anyhow. Both will play a lot like this:
Oneshot pack, move on to next, oneshot pack.... the difference will be that you spend 3 seconds or half a second on the map boss.

Honestly, buff everything else to the level of daggers, dont nerf them. The DPS difference between a perfectly rolled sword and a perfectly rolled dagger is just too marginal.
If you just nerf daggers, the next thing people would use are claws and maces (highest crit).

That honestly doesnt solve anything.

yea this is nonesense along with other peoples idea that 30k is just as efficient as 100k.

you obviously have not had 30k on a 2h build, or more, if you believe its the same thing between 30k and 100k.

let me put it like this, 30k for ubers is fuck all,nothing, you wont even be able to clear the white minions in time in the healing phase.

in maps its the same thing, the difference between 30k and 80k (which i have now) is HUGE, you acutally 1 shot stuff with 80k, rare mobs take as much time to kill as white mobs, unlike with 30k.

Unfortunately even with 80k dps the clear speed is still meh compared to other builds who reach like 100k on big AoE skills, and the survivability as a 2h even with leg kaoms is shite, theyre pretty much the worst builds at the moment, no damage, no defense, slow clear speed, only really good skill is cyclone.

They might nerf daggers, but i dont think it will be too hard, what they really need to do is to buff other builds like you said, to the same effectiveness as daggers.

Ubers? You mean Atziri? Well, thats not the main content of the game anyways, its a bonus dungeon. How many times do you have to hit Atziri with 30k dps? Lets hear it.

Normal atziri about 40 times with my 2h sword mara whos sitting at 29k cyclone tooltip, its a LOT slower than with 80k.

I dont know how i missed the point there, saying 30k is the same shit as 300k is simply not true, a dagger lets you get twice or three times more dps than with a 2h weapon, while wearing a shield, if thats not OP i dont know what is.

And nerfing daggers doesnt mean people will go with maces or claws, because daggers nodes are pretty much the best weapon specific nodes in the game, even if the base items get nerfed theyll still likely be better than maces and claws.





also, lol I_no

I'm going to get alot of crap for this but i'm still going to say it. This game is drifting towards Diablo 3, where 95% of builds are crit based.

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Rampe69 wrote:

I'm going to get alot of crap for this but i'm still going to say it. This game is drifting towards Diablo 3, where 95% of builds are crit based.

its not drifting its already there ;)