They did state they wanted the content to be accessible to both nolifers and casuals, which it is with the caveat that it will take a casual months if not years to max out his masters, which nolifers have achieved in a couple weeks.
Shop closed until further notice. Check out my Dominus musical tribute instead:
https://soundcloud.com/hackproducer0815/dominus
Remove crafted mods should be available earlier. At level 8, a master can remove one explicit mod at a fairly high price, 1 ex + 1 scouring or so. That way crafting will be more interesting.
In a way I don't see why we can't have a one-off way to remove a mod up to a 1 per day per account as long as you have anyone at 5 or 6. I have an armor I put on the wrong mod, I just want to fix it for me. I have a sword that has wrong mod because it was before that patch that allowed phys and accuracy. Again, just for me and playing mainly solo. There is no payment but you lose 15% xp and the character has to be above 60.
Instead of allowing low master level mod removal and perhaps having an issue with folks crafting cheap mods prior to regal/exa to increase the chance of a good roll there, instead make it mod replacement. Then at lvl 8 open to mod removal.
That will allow crafting a while leveling by replacing the one mod with better tiers (as the master levels up).
+1 excellent suggestion.
"Metas rotate all the time, eventually the developers will buff melee"
PoE 2013-2018
Remove crafted mods should be available earlier. At level 8, a master can remove one explicit mod at a fairly high price, 1 ex + 1 scouring or so. That way crafting will be more interesting.
That would be way too powerful, and way too cheap.
Remove crafted mods should be available earlier. At level 8, a master can remove one explicit mod at a fairly high price, 1 ex + 1 scouring or so. That way crafting will be more interesting.
That would be way too powerful, and way too cheap.
I disagree. Almost all crafting options in most games have this already. Replace one mod on an item should have already been implemented.
@Ilya:
I disagree.
If you want a 20h adventure with an additional 40h optional content, play Skyrim. Or play PoE without parties and uninstall it after beating Dominus on Merciless.
But the PoE made by Grinding Gear Games belongs to another type of games, pioneered by Diablo. I spent well above 1k hours on D2 in my youth/college.
I view the experience of building a character as a month long process (averaging 5-10 hours per week), fine tuning the build and gear, and having fun cooperating with other people to clear areas in faster or more interesting ways, and also trading (if PoE had a usable trading system ;) ). A fair amount of grinding is expected and even desired.
But all that is not on topic here.
This is about a game mechanic that was announced to help mid-lvl players and enable them to meaningfully craft items without having hundreds of ex in currency (e.g. me, with somewhat below 20 days total /played).
Yet currently, an important part of this game mechanic (mod removal, or rather upgrading mod tiers as you lvl up masters) is only available to high-end players, who don't even need it except to offer it as a service for exorbitant fees to those who do. And these players even don't need the "reroll till perfection" option because it can't access top tier mods.
It seems to me that mod removal was thrown in at the last minute before releasing 1.2 without much thought.
Grinding is at the heart of just about every topic in why we don't have better QoL in PoE. For instance, why is Tora's T3 damage craft relegated to level 8?! The problem with masters is that just about all of their crafted mods are garbage-tier.
We're not talking about six t1 mods mirror-worthy gear. We're talking about a combination of tier 3 mods. That "can have multiple crafted mods" takes up a suffix slot and is only available on level 8 Elreon says volumes about how much contempt GGG holds for anyone who isn't a hardcore streamer.
Would it suddenly kill the game if anyone can craft a bunch of tier 3 mods on an item? Probably not. Would it suddenly kill the game if masters could remove not just master mods, but the occasional trash mod? E.G. find a quiver with 6 mods. Oops, one of them is adds 1-2 fire damage. Would be nice to remove that and add a master mod. But once again, GGG's contempt shines through.
No, no quality of life--even if the gear is far and away worse than the BiS mirrored gear so many run around with. And what for? To have everyone flock to the poe.xyz.is auction house, thus gating a bunch of content behind "grind the same map for hours, praying for a decent drop, then force someone to play the WTS bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump bump" game for hours? Is that fun? Is that entertaining? Does that put a smile on someone's face?
Nobody is asking for BiS mirror-worthy gear to rain down upon them every day. But I think it's fair to ask to not constantly feel the boot of the RNG on your throat when playing self-found.
Ok before start, i would like to stated i have a dreadful handwriting because i don't have many knowledge in english, so sorry for all my spelling mistakes. i tried my best with somes trad tools.
- removing and replacing mods is a big currency sink and another layer of rng
example: guy wants 15% attack speed on his weapon
now: he rolls 12%
then: he rolls 12%, removes, rolls 14%, removes, rolls 11% removes, rolls 12% removes, rolls 13%, removes, rolls 12%, removes, rolls 13%, removes, rolls 11%, removes, rolls 14%, keeps, comes to forums and creates thread about layers upon layer of rng and how much the game sucks.
From the game designers perspective it is very reasonable to make this available late in order to prevent people from having frustrating events as shown in the little example above (and we all know from using chromatics/fusings/jewellers that it can get way worse than that).
Anyway the relevance is little for low to mid tier items. If your one hand sword got 232 dps or 238 dps wont make a difference. It gets more relevant for high tier items tho.
Removing mods is overrated. As some people have stated, in the course of process you will anyway replace old items with new items: you buy a 280 dps sword instead of that 232-238 dps sword.
Therefore this seems to be a bit stupid to me. None of you wants to waste 40 chaos/alch/whatever on a 10-80 chaos item in order to try to get 2-3% increase on average and noone wants to fail doing so while relying on rng. If you wanna max out your high tier item, you can either as well wait until you got it 8 or pay the guys who made it to level 8 within a week of 24/7 master grinding.
There is really no issue with having this only available with level 8 at all. Just a bunch of ppl believe that it would make their life in PoE better. The opposite would be happening on average instead.
On the other hand I agree that leveling masters to 8 can be a life time task which is the total opposite of what chris mentioned in a pre-patch interview: "wont be an endless grind" or smth like that. If you really just play normally and don't exclusively grind masters then it can easily take 4-6 months to get them to level 8 imo. Maybe it would be best to just increase XP gain from quests.
I think moving the removing crafted mod ability from 8 to 7 is an option tho. It should not be available too early for sure.
It is not bad for the economy. Currency sinks are good for the economy.
It is bad for the player instead. Many players don't think that far ahead and when they spend loads of currency on a mediocre item that they gonna replace 1-2 wees later anyway, this does not increase the funfactor of the game. Instead it would probably increase the bad feelings about gambling and RNG in the game (what masters where originally not designed for - the opposite is true) and create frustration. Those who severely need this option already now will be able to find ways to do it.
Oh, This time, you seem to be really concerned by the the adversity/misfortune to poor casual players... A kind of a new Mahatma gandhi 1.2 with eco views 2014 ....
Imo removing mods (=eternal) is for perfecting gear. There is no reason to perfect mediocre gear and it would be as well a waste of currency.
...This is an elitist behavior. First thats wrong,a no-sense and show how you are blinded.
But at least, your honest sentence clearly show what you think about how should be the economy and players's status in poe game.
Min max the gear with masters craft tool isn't the goal... !!!
You talk about médiocre and perfect gear, and The Mid-game gear...thats doesn't exist? somes of rares i always use
People juste want to add the last +12 light resist to be capped at 75. And if their resist are are yet capped, add somes life/mana/stats if they have the opportunity. And at end be abble to use removal-mod to select fire-res instead of light res master mod because you change one item in your gear or something like this. Not more like this.....(nothing with max roll like you was focus)
[ Edit: exemple of mid-game gear (i use this items always) end Edit]
On the other hand, there is also no reason to make crafting a no brainer and let people add and remove mods on mediocre items as oftenly as they want. One bad side effect would as well be less utility of several other items that you can find or trade for.
Example:
Lets say you find a 1200 armour shield with good stats for example. You add a 2nd resistance mod as this is what you need. Later on you wanna replace this res with the other res.
What you now gotta do is:
a) think carefully which mod to add to your shield
b) later on if you need another mod on a shield you need to
b1) buy or find a new shield and possibly again think carefully what mod to add
b2) sell your old shield
c) possibly use a lesser item than the one you got as you can add this newly required mod on it
What you then gotta do:
a) not
b) not
c) not
I personally as well would like to have everything available instantly sometimes. But then I start to understand that it does not help the game at all to have immediately one item that you can just switch mods on for any purpose. It would make the game more boring, make new finds less important, make trading obsolete, make any sort of decisionmaking skill obsolete and so on. It is really enough to have this available at the very end. Maybe level 7 masters would be still doing that tho. As well the option to waste countless currency on a single low item is something that some players need to be prevented from doing for their own protection.
So after all, all you guys who want it available from level 1 on (or any other very low level of masters) don't know what you really are requesting. You don't understand that it would make the hunt for new items way more boring and shorten the lifespan of the game as well as the interaction. It would make you complain even more about "can't find any more upgrades" and in the end make PoE more a stupid/mindless grind. Therefore it's the hard reality that you all are chobos. Sorry to say so, but its the truth.
Bullshit again.
When i see your kind of attemp of "demonstration". Thats really remember me the demagogic speech from political-man.
Last thing:
Put removal mod only at lvl 8 + make their cost at 1 Orb of Augmentation is a troll!
POe trolled us hard.They fucked all the master- craft system due to this. Thats break the little fun added by this new way to craft at cheap price.
Removal mod lvl 8 only was the ultimate provocation i tolerate, i have played 2198 hours (90+% of time solo, never buy one rare, execpt fews spécial unique like Doryani's belt/5Llightcoil). I uninstalled the game yesterday night.
Same like my first word, excuse me for poor english writing, i tried my best but i never learn english anguage.
Last edited by Tonnerre on Sep 17, 2014, 2:50:48 PM
They did state they wanted the content to be accessible to both nolifers and casuals, which it is with the caveat that it will take a casual months if not years to max out his masters, which nolifers have achieved in a couple weeks.
Here's the problem:
Why can't the nolifers be satisfied with some obnoxious just-for-kicks achievements? Why do some very needed features such as "allows more than one master mod" (which I believe only allows a second mod at best, because if you have a prefix, suffix, a regal mod, and then the can have additional mods, you already have 4 there) have to be gated to level 8?
Essentially, why is GGG balancing around 1% of the playing population, and eyeing the rest of the population with contempt?
And I don't mean "playing skill" of the 1%, so much as RNG and gear acquisition skill.
Last edited by IlyaK1986 on Sep 17, 2014, 4:41:15 PM
Ok before start, i would like to stated i have a dreadful handwriting because i don't have many knowledge in english, so sorry for all my spelling mistakes. i tried my best with somes trad tools.
- removing and replacing mods is a big currency sink and another layer of rng
example: guy wants 15% attack speed on his weapon
now: he rolls 12%
then: he rolls 12%, removes, rolls 14%, removes, rolls 11% removes, rolls 12% removes, rolls 13%, removes, rolls 12%, removes, rolls 13%, removes, rolls 11%, removes, rolls 14%, keeps, comes to forums and creates thread about layers upon layer of rng and how much the game sucks.
From the game designers perspective it is very reasonable to make this available late in order to prevent people from having frustrating events as shown in the little example above (and we all know from using chromatics/fusings/jewellers that it can get way worse than that).
Anyway the relevance is little for low to mid tier items. If your one hand sword got 232 dps or 238 dps wont make a difference. It gets more relevant for high tier items tho.
Removing mods is overrated. As some people have stated, in the course of process you will anyway replace old items with new items: you buy a 280 dps sword instead of that 232-238 dps sword.
Therefore this seems to be a bit stupid to me. None of you wants to waste 40 chaos/alch/whatever on a 10-80 chaos item in order to try to get 2-3% increase on average and noone wants to fail doing so while relying on rng. If you wanna max out your high tier item, you can either as well wait until you got it 8 or pay the guys who made it to level 8 within a week of 24/7 master grinding.
There is really no issue with having this only available with level 8 at all. Just a bunch of ppl believe that it would make their life in PoE better. The opposite would be happening on average instead.
On the other hand I agree that leveling masters to 8 can be a life time task which is the total opposite of what chris mentioned in a pre-patch interview: "wont be an endless grind" or smth like that. If you really just play normally and don't exclusively grind masters then it can easily take 4-6 months to get them to level 8 imo. Maybe it would be best to just increase XP gain from quests.
I think moving the removing crafted mod ability from 8 to 7 is an option tho. It should not be available too early for sure.
It is not bad for the economy. Currency sinks are good for the economy.
It is bad for the player instead. Many players don't think that far ahead and when they spend loads of currency on a mediocre item that they gonna replace 1-2 wees later anyway, this does not increase the funfactor of the game. Instead it would probably increase the bad feelings about gambling and RNG in the game (what masters where originally not designed for - the opposite is true) and create frustration. Those who severely need this option already now will be able to find ways to do it.
Oh, This time, you seem to be really concerned by the the adversity/misfortune to poor casual players... A kind of a new Mahatma gandhi 1.2 with eco views 2014 ....
Imo removing mods (=eternal) is for perfecting gear. There is no reason to perfect mediocre gear and it would be as well a waste of currency.
...This is an elitist behavior. First thats wrong,a no-sense and show how you are blinded.
But at least, your honest sentence clearly show what you think about how should be the economy and players's status in poe game.
Min max the gear with masters craft tool isn't the goal... !!!
You talk about médiocre and perfect gear, and The Mid-game gear...thats doesn't exist? somes of rares i always use
People juste want to add the last +12 light resist to be capped at 75. And if their resist are are yet capped, add somes life/mana/stats if they have the opportunity. And at end be abble to use removal-mod to select fire-res instead of light res master mod because you change one item in your gear or something like this. Not more like this.....(nothing with max roll like you was focus)
[ Edit: exemple of mid-game gear (i use this items always) end Edit]
On the other hand, there is also no reason to make crafting a no brainer and let people add and remove mods on mediocre items as oftenly as they want. One bad side effect would as well be less utility of several other items that you can find or trade for.
Example:
Lets say you find a 1200 armour shield with good stats for example. You add a 2nd resistance mod as this is what you need. Later on you wanna replace this res with the other res.
What you now gotta do is:
a) think carefully which mod to add to your shield
b) later on if you need another mod on a shield you need to
b1) buy or find a new shield and possibly again think carefully what mod to add
b2) sell your old shield
c) possibly use a lesser item than the one you got as you can add this newly required mod on it
What you then gotta do:
a) not
b) not
c) not
I personally as well would like to have everything available instantly sometimes. But then I start to understand that it does not help the game at all to have immediately one item that you can just switch mods on for any purpose. It would make the game more boring, make new finds less important, make trading obsolete, make any sort of decisionmaking skill obsolete and so on. It is really enough to have this available at the very end. Maybe level 7 masters would be still doing that tho. As well the option to waste countless currency on a single low item is something that some players need to be prevented from doing for their own protection.
So after all, all you guys who want it available from level 1 on (or any other very low level of masters) don't know what you really are requesting. You don't understand that it would make the hunt for new items way more boring and shorten the lifespan of the game as well as the interaction. It would make you complain even more about "can't find any more upgrades" and in the end make PoE more a stupid/mindless grind. Therefore it's the hard reality that you all are chobos. Sorry to say so, but its the truth.
Bullshit again.
When i see your kind of attemp of "demonstration". Thats really remember me the demagogic speech from political-man.
Last thing:
Put removal mod only at lvl 8 + make their cost at 1 Orb of Augmentation is a troll!
POe trolled us hard.They fucked all the master- craft system due to this. Thats break the little fun added by this new way to craft at cheap price.
Removal mod lvl 8 only was the ultimate provocation i tolerate, i have played 2198 hours (90+% of time solo, never buy one rare, execpt fews spécial unique like Doryani's belt/5Llightcoil). I uninstalled the game yesterday night.
Same like my first word, excuse me for poor english writing, i tried my best but i never learn english anguage.
"
Oh, This time, you seem to be really concerned by the the adversity/misfortune to poor casual players... A kind of a new Mahatma gandhi 1.2 with eco views 2014 ....
In a thread full of consense I show up several different negative aspects of the proposed changes.
"
...This is an elitist behavior. First thats wrong,a no-sense and show how you are blinded.
But at least, your honest sentence clearly show what you think about how should be the economy and players's status in poe game.
Min max the gear with masters craft tool isn't the goal... !!!
You talk about médiocre and perfect gear, and The Mid-game gear...thats doesn't exist? somes of rares i always use
People juste want to add the last +12 light resist to be capped at 75. And if their resist are are yet capped, add somes life/mana/stats if they have the opportunity. And at end be abble to use removal-mod to select fire-res instead of light res master mod because you change one item in your gear or something like this. Not more like this.....(nothing with max roll like you was focus)
[ Edit: exemple of mid-game gear (i use this items always)
Seriously mate, I am not quite sure where you are coming from with "Mid-game gear" and all that stuff. What I can say is that if you could just change and switch master crafted mods on all your item for low the challenge and fun would suffer for me. If you want easy one-way and no brain equipping then you could just go an play diablo 3. I enjoy having leaks in my build and gear at times that I can fill in with something at a later point of time and gotta work around etc.
"
Bullshit again.
When i see your kind of attemp of "demonstration". Thats really remember me the demagogic speech from political-man.
I am a political person but I again don't know what you mean with demagogic speech. I demonstrated how a change like you and 95% of others in this thread propose would simplify the game way too much, on the other hand is in no way necessary and increase the RNG frustration moments of players. This is the truth.
"
Put removal mod only at lvl 8 + make their cost at 1 Orb of Augmentation is a troll!
POe trolled us hard.They fucked all the master- craft system due to this.
What a bullshit. You say the game is screwed cause you can't reroll all stats to perfection and swap them whenever you feel like on all your items? I call this noobish playstation generation thinking. Thats what you probably belong to in any way. But it is not what makes PoE good and different from the rest of the crap games out there. :p
